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[Mike1976]

Look carefully at the picture

British Army Plans All-Tracked 3rd Division with Challenger 3 tanks and Ajax tracked combat vehicles

British Army Plans All-Tracked 3rd Division with Challenger 3 tanks and Ajax tracked combat vehicles

armyrecognition.com

 

[muck]

'Bloomberg' reports that Germany is about to issue an order for 1,000 Leopard 2 main battle tanks and 2,500 infantry fighting vehicles. The volume of the order could exceed €25 billion. (Source)

Look carefully at the picture

British Army Plans All-Tracked 3rd Division with Challenger 3 tanks and Ajax tracked combat vehicles

British Army Plans All-Tracked 3rd Division with Challenger 3 tanks and Ajax tracked combat vehicles

armyrecognition.com

Maybe I'm stupid, what am I supposed to spot there?

 

[BravoZulu]

'Bloomberg' reports that Germany is about to issue an order for 1,000 Leopard 2 main battle tanks and 2,500 infantry fighting vehicles. The volume of the order could exceed €25 billion. (Source)
Maybe I'm stupid, what am I supposed to spot there?

Have a look at the Chally 3

 

[skaw]

'Bloomberg' reports that Germany is about to issue an order for 1,000 Leopard 2 main battle tanks and 2,500 infantry fighting vehicles. The volume of the order could exceed €25 billion. (Source)
Maybe I'm stupid, what am I supposed to spot there?

Holy S**t...that would be from about 300 up to 1300 tanks in ten years...thats very...optimistic, to say the least. I very welcome that for sure but i have my doubts, despite the confirmation from the industry.

 

[Mike1976]

'Bloomberg' reports that Germany is about to issue an order for 1,000 Leopard 2 main battle tanks and 2,500 infantry fighting vehicles. The volume of the order could exceed €25 billion. (Source)
Maybe I'm stupid, what am I supposed to spot there?

Have a look at the Chally 3

They've changed the picture now. The original had a Challenger 3 with a second main gun. Probably stuffed up in Photoshop.

 

[av405]

Holy S**t...that would be from about 300 up to 1300 tanks in ten years...thats very...optimistic, to say the least. I very welcome that for sure but i have my doubts, despite the confirmation from the industry.

There's articles that say 1,000 tanks, others that say 600. I'm guessing ze Germans want 1,000 total. 600 new build plus the 300+ already in inventory/storage?

 

[skaw]

My understandig is 1000 new tanks. A total of about 900 active plus ~100 reserve tanks with replacing mostly all existing tanks. There seem to be quite a few which are upgraded 2A4 which are getting old and overall there are many different configurations which they kinda wanna overcome.

S&T also reporting while referencing to Thomas Wiegold from augengeradeaus.net who got confirmation from the industry, too.

Bundeswehr plant 1.000 Leopard und 2.500 Boxer zu beschaffen

Die Bundeswehr plant, in den nächsten zehn Jahren 1.000 Kampfpanzer Leopard und 2.500 gepanzerte Transportfahrzeuge Boxer zu beschaffen.

soldat-und-technik.de

 

[muck]

'Defence Network' reports that Germany is also looking at supplementing the Puma with Lynx infantry fighting vehicles, citing greater compatibility with allied forces. (Source)

 

[TheKiwi]

'Defence Network' reports that Germany is also looking at supplementing the Puma with Lynx infantry fighting vehicles, citing greater compatibility with allied forces. (Source)

My understanding is that even though the Puma program has evolved into being a good IFV, the low purchase numbers and lack of exports make it very expensive compared to Lynx.

 

[muck]

My understanding is that even though the Puma program has evolved into being a good IFV, the low purchase numbers and lack of exports make it very expensive compared to Lynx.

True. Moreover, Lynx does leave room for platformed solutions which Puma doesn't have.

 

[Mike1976]

My understanding is that even though the Puma program has evolved into being a good IFV, the low purchase numbers and lack of exports make it very expensive compared to Lynx.

But does it have low purchase numbers and lack of exports because it is expensive or is it expensive because of those reasons?

The thing I never understood is why Rheinmetal would create a competitor to it's own product.

If you want to go all next gen that makes sense, but neither FK41 (Lynx) nor FK51 (Panther) are that revolutionary compared to the latest versions of Puma and Leopard 2A7/A8. Moreover for the Leo 2 the idea of too expensive because too complex doesn't even hold up.

Puma not being as modular is a flaw, but not unfixable and in terms of most ancillary tasks Boxer is looking like a much more likely candidate than an expensive and rare IFV (variant). If it's only flaw is it's complexity than the BW would/should buy only Lynx immediately from now on and phase out the Puma fleet once vehicles hit a certain age.

FK51, surely some of those innovations will end up in Leopard 2A8 or A9 or an upgrade package as I don't see many current or future operators ditching their fairly new (often not even delivered) tanks again just because Rheinmetal has a slightly bigger gun to offer.

 

[TheKiwi]

I'd suggest it started out expensive directly because of the very limited size of the Bundeswehr orders. And thus wasn't viable as a export. And so remained expensive. While both Boxer and Lynx were much more heavily pushed as export products.

 

[Mike1976]

I'd suggest it started out expensive directly because of the very limited size of the Bundeswehr orders. And thus wasn't viable as a export. And so remained expensive. While both Boxer and Lynx were much more heavily pushed as export products.

Pushed ... or perceived on the receiving end. I'd imagine that with the reputation of german engineering once the complexity was noted the potential customers ran for the hills.

 

[muck]

Puma is a staggeringly expensive vehicle and will remain so even if the German Army were to tap into economies of scale and order a thousand more. The price tag comes from a question no one save the Germans had felt a need to ask: Could you design the most protected infantry fighting vehicle in the world to be air-transportable?

Puma is a marvel of engineering—but also a product of twenty years of fiddling and taring, always on the brink of pushing the entire programme over the edge. They had to jump through so many hoops to achieve air-transportability, the complexity alone will ensure Puma never becomes cost-competitive.

For example, compare both vehicles' engines, the performance of which is roughly equal—and you'll see what I mean.

​	Puma​	Lynx​
output	1,090 hp​	1,140 hp​
dimensions	1.10 m × 0.70 m × 0.69 m (0,53 m³)​	1.55 m × 1.06 m × 1.28 m (2,10 m³)​
weight	980 kg​	1,763 kg​

Puma's engine is 80% lighter and about four times smaller, despite only minimal differences in output.

No one except Germany is going to buy a vehicle so needlessly overengineered if they're eligible to order Lynx instead (which may not be as advanced but incorporates many lessons learned and costs only €12 million compared to Puma's €30 million).

 

[av405]

My understandig is 1000 new tanks. A total of about 900 active plus ~100 reserve tanks with replacing mostly all existing tanks. There seem to be quite a few which are upgraded 2A4 which are getting old and overall there are many different configurations which they kinda wanna overcome.

That makes sense. At the end of the day, I believe just about all of the BW's current Leopard tanks started off asl A4 versions manufactured in the 1980s.

I started to look at it from an industry point of view and I believe that the Germans will donate the current fleet to Ukraine once those are replaced by a (still hypothetical) future order of new build A8s. I can't imagine Rheinmetall would like the Germans releasing 300+ used tanks into the secondary market to compete with new build variants. Giving the current fleet to Ukraine progressively would be a win for the Germans, Ukrainians, and Rheinmetall.

 

[Mike1976]

France boosts Safran’s AASM Hammer precision-guided bomb production after Ukraine’s operational successes

France boosts Safran’s AASM Hammer precision-guided bomb production after Ukraine’s operational successes

armyrecognition.com

 

[Mike1976]

Breaking News: Dutch F-35 Fighter Jets Head for Poland amid Rising Russian Threat and NATO vigilance

Breaking News: Dutch F-35 Fighter Jets Head for Poland amid Rising Russian Threat and NATO vigilance

armyrecognition.com

 

[Mike1976]

NASAMS System Loan from Norway Strengthens Denmark’s Surface-to-Air Missile Capabilities

NASAMS System Loan from Norway Strengthens Denmark’s Surface-to-Air Missile Capabilities

armyrecognition.com

 

[muck]

Shockingly enough, the next service pistol of the German armed forces will not come from Heckler & Koch. Only Arex (Slovenia), Česká zbrojovka (Czechia) and Glock (Austria) have met all technical requirements and advanced to the final round of the bidding phase. The contract will go to whoever makes the most affordable offer for some 186,000 hand guns. (Source)

ČZUB has won. (Source)

 

[Mike1976]

ČZUB has won. (Source)

No further info, so I'm guessing that it's the P-10 C or P-10 F.

The P-8 was hammer-fired, but the P-14 is striker-fired, so there doesn't seem to be a bias towards either. Could also be the P-07 Duty or P-09 Duty which are hammer-fired, but they're slightly more expensive and as cost is the primary factor ...