Politics Anti-Semitism, Israel and the wider world

[Jake84]

And I'm pretty sure that I didn't "mindlessly" berate any country

I am sure that the French actually appreciate the surrender stereotype you have chosen to highlight, especially the parachutiste killed yesterday in Mali, whether his mission was right or wrong.

It’s okay though, you’re German and I’m confident I don’t need to lecture you about History and the numerous battles and wars France went through.

EDIT: would my post have been more palatable if today had been a rainy autumn day?

Der Klügere gibt nach.

 

[Telmar]

@Ivan le Fou

France gloats about itself and its values like everyone does. But we don' t promote ourselves as the law enforcer of the world.

But a word about values: there is a difference between the line of values on the horizon and the tricks the in the road leading there. I consider myself a Christian, as such I should be welcoming any immigrant and sharing everything I have, and yet I don't think it' s a good idea.

I hated since forever this land of human rights nonsense, we don' t live up to it, never have, and I really believe you don' t buy it either, and you don' t buy what it really could mean (like taking in all the migrants of this world}.

And we don' t have the ressources to do everything. Why is there a difference between Russia and China? Russia is weaker for sure, but mainly because Russia had led military actions in the vicinity of NATO countries. When you have russian involvment in Ukraine, Poland and Slovakia are right next door, so this does come more as a threat than something going far away.

A war in Syria, Mali or Libya has immediate repercussions on us. Sorry to say, as tragic as it might be (even though there is a bigger picture), there is suffering much closer to home where we can be much more effective.

As for the enlistment, it' s not a cheap shot really. If you feel strongly about issues, you can enlist as a doctor, a soldier, or take in some refugees in your home.

 

[Deleted member 11302]

I don' t want to go too far OT, there are threads regarding this where I posted my opinion.



Well certainly not because of Iran. As a matter of fact, it is precisely in Iran that the largest jewish community in the Middle East lives, and in much safer conditions than in muslim countries that we call allies. And sometimes even in safer conditions that a french city suburb with a large immigration-based population.

So basically, is Iran a threat to France? No. is the islamic state a threat? Yes. Hence our response.

I never claimed that France's Jews leave because of Iran. They leave because the entire country along with its institutions kowtows to muslim extremists and their anti-semitic utterances.

I am sure that the French actually appreciate the surrender stereotype you have chosen to highlight, especially the parachutiste killed yesterday in Mali, whether his mission was right or wrong.

It’s okay though, you’re German and I’m confident I don’t need to lecture you about History and the numerous battles and wars France went through.


Der Klügere gibt nach.

Oh if that is what has annoyed you, I would personally apologise to the family of that paratrooper, still not loving France's and Germany's foreign policy, though.

 

[Telmar]

I never claimed that France's Jews leave because of Iran. They leave because the entire country along with its institutions kowtows to muslim extremists and their anti-semitic utterances.
...

But then our foreign policy should not have Iran in it's crosshairs.

 

[Deleted member 11302]

Please explain.

 

[Telmar]

Please explain.

here's how I see it.

There is a lot of immigration to Israel, albeit less than in the 2012-2016 days. There have been too many antisemitic acts in France.

But Iran has nothing to do with it. Most problems are "made in France". They challenge our domestic policies, not our foreign policy.

Iran I suppose we see as a an important regional force, capable of the best and the worst depending on its motivation. Human Rights violations in this region are common, yet lots of violators are our allies, but Iran is'nt. The only thing with Iran is that we know that Iranians have resilience, patriotic committment, motivation and that they can achieve a nuclear weapon. And as regional force, they want influence. They want to be the power to talk to instead of the KSA or the islamic state. Believe me, if the nuclear program was' nt on the table, noone would care about the islamists there and the human rights violations.

As for France, Iran has' nt done anything against us in ages. And that' s true for the US too by the way. KSA nationals hit the US on 9/11, and they are US allies.

So Iran really has nothing to do with the difficulties of French Jews.

 

[berkut76]

So Iran really has nothing to do with the difficulties of French Jews.

Iran has financed radical anti-Israel terrorist organizations like Hamas and Islamic Jihad for eons. There are plenty of followers of these bastards in Europe. So, yes, at least indirectly Iran is involved in stoking the flames of anti-Semitism through its proxies.

 

[Telmar]

Iran has financed radical anti-Israel terrorist organizations like Hamas and Islamic Jihad for eons. There are plenty of followers of these bastards in Europe. So, yes, at least indirectly Iran is involved in stoking the flames of anti-Semitism through its proxies.

True that if I were an Israeli, Iran would clearly be a threat. But even the Iranians and the Israelis don´t go head to head. kind of how the US and the Soviet Union were doing it in the Cold War.

If I take a look at the attacks that bled mz country, that targetted Jews, they came fom Al Qeida and IS...Both not on that good terms with Iran. So not being buddy buddy with them, but not putting them on the top of the list of the most awful and murderous enemies of my people.

 

[Jake84]

Oh if that is what has annoyed you, I would personally apologise to the family of that paratrooper, still not loving France's and Germany's foreign policy, though.

How sad.

As you said though you still have a right to leave Germany which foreign policy you hate so much. Or better yet try the lottery on the internet to get a green card, fight in the sand box for the well-being of “Ze West and Israel”. That at least would be more useful and efficient than big words on the internet.

PS: I also have a right to challenge your posting, not that big a deal and no one wants this forum to become an echo chamber, whether of Internet chickenhawks or otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 11302]

here's how I see it.

There is a lot of immigration to Israel, albeit less than in the 2012-2016 days. There have been too many antisemitic acts in France.

But Iran has nothing to do with it. Most problems are "made in France". They challenge our domestic policies, not our foreign policy.

Iran I suppose we see as a an important regional force, capable of the best and the worst depending on its motivation. Human Rights violations in this region are common, yet lots of violators are our allies, but Iran is'nt. The only thing with Iran is that we know that Iranians have resilience, patriotic committment, motivation and that they can achieve a nuclear weapon. And as regional force, they want influence. They want to be the power to talk to instead of the KSA or the islamic state. Believe me, if the nuclear program was' nt on the table, noone would care about the islamists there and the human rights violations.

As for France, Iran has' nt done anything against us in ages. And that' s true for the US too by the way. KSA nationals hit the US on 9/11, and they are US allies.

So Iran really has nothing to do with the difficulties of French Jews.

Thank you for answering. Let me begin by extending an olive branch here. It was not my intention to start a p!ssing contest or for things to get testy between members. Although, I do like to debate issues controversially. If you could ask any of my friends, they'd tell how I'm the exact kind of @$$hole irl.

On topic, I think you are fundamentally wrong in trying to divorce the issue of antisemitism in Europe from the Iranian regime. It has been reliably established that the Iranian regime leverages substantial resources to spread antisemitism. This was even given voice to by Germany's intel agencies, not that I'm expecting Germany's political class to do anything about it.

Source: https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/anti...ly-promotes-antisemitism-israel-hatred-633318

Germany's and Iran's antisemitism are historically connected and have fed from one another at various times. If you have the attention span feel free to read this essay from Matthias Küntzel (in English) on the issue:

Matthias Küntzel: Iranian Antisemitism: Stepchild of German National Socialism

www.matthiaskuentzel.de

Or take a look at this for one:

https://www.thearticle.com/jeremy-corbyns-shameful-links-to-irans-theocratic-tyranny

Oh, and wouldn't you know, Corbyn raised a big stink in the UK for his own antisemitism. I guess I must be seeing things.

Oh btw, on your and Jake's implicit "chickenhawk" accusations, I never argued for military action against Iran or its proxies by European powers (LOL), what I was arguing consistently is that Germany's, Britain's and France's political elites urgently need to get off their knees and stop svcking circumcised Mullah d!cks. There is a far spectrum of actionable policies between defeatist pandering and sending in the troops and Rafales/Typhoons! If that bit of nuance has somehow escaped your and Jake's attention, sorry not my fault or problem actually.

How sad.

As you said though you still have a right to leave Germany which foreign policy you hate so much. Or better yet try the lottery on the internet to get a green card, fight in the sand box for the well-being of “Ze West and Israel”. That at least would be more useful and efficient than big words on the internet.

Sorry Jake, but somehow I don't feel like I owe you in particular any explanation as to how I've come to live in Germany, particularly as I was brought here as an Infant. As to your "chickenhawk" trope, see above.

PS: I also have a right to challenge your posting, not that big a deal and no one wants this forum to become an echo chamber, whether of Internet chickenhawks or otherwise.

Yes absolutely, you have every right to challenge whatever I say, unlike the founders of West Germany, I firmly believe in free speech and open discourse, I never said anything to the contrary, so kindly spare me your grandstanding.

cheers

EDIT: Typos

 

[Telmar]

Thank you for answering. Let me begin by extending an olive branch here. It was not my intention to start a p!ssing contest or for things to get testy between members. Although, I do like to debate issues controversially. If you could ask any of my friends, they'd tell how I'm the exact kind of @$$hole irl.

On topic, I think you are fundamentally wrong in trying to divorce the issue of antisemitism in Europe from the Iranian regime. It has been reliably established that the Iranian regime leverages substantial resources to spread antisemitism. This was even given voice to by Germany's intel agencies, not that I'm expecting Germany's political class to do anything about it.

Source: https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/anti...ly-promotes-antisemitism-israel-hatred-633318

Germany's and Iran's antisemitism are historically connected and have fed from one another at various times. If you have the attention span feel free to read this essay from Matthias Küntzel (in English) on the issue:

Matthias Küntzel: Iranian Antisemitism: Stepchild of German National Socialism

www.matthiaskuentzel.de

Or take a look at this for one:

https://www.thearticle.com/jeremy-corbyns-shameful-links-to-irans-theocratic-tyranny

Oh, and wouldn't you know, Corbyn raised a big stink in the UK for his own antisemitism. I guess I must be seeing things.

...

I naturally thank you for your olive branch, although a more formal apology on being disrespectful of soldiers doing the fight you want to be done would not have been bad. But I think Jake put your nose in it sufficiently and you have learned your lesson and we can move on.

Jews have been rejected everywhere...since forever. As a small group of people who had to always go the extra mile to survive, they generated a mix of admiration, envy and hate for being successful. Their approach to religion was also much more strict than others, making them a curiosity. Another aspect that played a big role IMO is the term "chosen people". You are in or out with judaism: the group stays united, apart from the rest, as they have been chosen. I don´t think you find a lot of others like that, perhaps Zoroastrians (of which you must be more familiar than me being of Iranian descent).

The first people to rescue Jews were Persians. I think it is Darius who removed the murderous Babylonians that had won the war and let the Jews rebuild the Temple. Both cultures being monotheists, and sometimes eerily close. The foundation for a jewish minority in that part of the world was set.

Fast forward to WWI and the nazis. I´ll take what the author is saying with a pinch of salt: everyone hated the Jews. You had the Dreyfus affair in France, countless organizations in Europe denouncing jewish secret societies...was there an antisemitic feeling in Iran (Persia) at that time? Perhaps. But let´s not forget that even if there was, they never moved to eradicating them like we in Europe did. That the Iranians admired the Germans? As someone of Iranian descent, you must know that even the name "Iran" derivates from "Aryan". Since the beginning of history, Persians have considered themselves of Aryan descent. They consider themselves of people having come from the North. With the nazis putting that forward, it must have seemed very attractive to Persians. But again, Jews were NOT persecuted, or much less than in any European nation at the time. I may add that in Central europe, they have´nt completely made peace with the fact that antisemitism is bad.

As you say, during the time of the Shah, Iran had diplomatic relations with Israel, worked with Israel, protected the community. At the islamic revolution, the Jews gained their protection and Khomeini distinguished between Zionists and Jews. Not that I am a fan of the murderous thug and his henchmen, but it was better to be a Jew there than in most allied nations of the West in that region. I´d choose Iran over pakistan as a Jew or a Christian at any point in history since the Brits don´t run the place. That does´nt mean that it is all good, after all it remains a totalitarian regime, and a rather paranoid one.

The Jewish virtual library, in contrast to the German writer you quoted writes the following (this covers the part where he was saying the Iranians were fascinated by nazis by the way):

Under the Pahlavi Dynasty, established in 1925, the country was secularized and oriented toward the West. This greatly benefited the Jews, who were emancipated and played an important role in the economy and in cultural life. On the eve of the Islamic Revolution in 1979, 80,000 Jews lived in Iran. In the wake of the upheaval, tens of thousands of Jews, especially the wealthy, left the country, leaving behind vast amounts of property.

And in summary, this is how the Jewish Virtual Library describes the fate of Jews in Iran:

Today, Iran’s Jewish population is the second largest in the Middle East, after Israel. Reports vary as to the condition and treatment of the small, tight-knit community, and the population of Iranian Jews can only be estimated due to the community’s isolation from world Jewry. The Jewish community in Iran is alive and well, although they live under the oppressive Islamic regime. In Iran’s capital city of Tehran there are 13 active synagogues that hold weekly services, five Jewish schools, two Jewish kindergartens, and a 100-bed capacity Jewish hospital. Although there are active Jewish communities all around the country, Tehran‘s community is the most significant.

Jews of Iran

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Personally I have travelled in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iran. Never have I felt in Iran a higher level of culture and knowledge. and even tolerance regardless of the islamist nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 11302]

I naturally thank you for your olive branch, although a more formal apology on being disrespectful of soldiers doing the fight you want to be done would not have been bad. But I think Jake put your nose in it sufficiently and you have learned your lesson and we can move on.

I can tell this debate is going nowhere, I disrespected no soldier whatsoever, but here we are pretending that I belittled the death of some individual brought up by you in the first place, when I was firmly taking a shot at Western Europe's principal countries for their stance on Iran.

Let's just say I feel totally "castigated and have learned my lesson", I hope this makes you feel better.

cheers

 

[berkut76]

Jewish leaders call on NAACP leader to resign over antisemitism

Prominent leaders of Philadelphia's Jewish community called for the resignation of the president of the city's NAACP chapter after he shared an antisemitic post on his Facebook page, local ABC News affiliate WPVI reported.

In a post that has since been deleted, the NAACP Philadelphia chapter's president Rodney Muhammad allegedly shared an image of rapper Ice Cube, TV host Nick Cannon and Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver DeSean Jackson and a man crushing people in his hand with the words: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

Disgusting, unbelievably wrong thing to do," said Steve Rosenberg, the chief operating officer of the Jewish Federation of Greater Philadelphia, WPVI reported.
"A horribly disgusting image of DeSean Jackson and an image of a hook-nosed Jewish man pushing people down," said Rosenberg. "To call the Jewish people oppressors with everything that we had to overcome over all these years is wrong in every level."

 

[berkut76]

Police probes UK rapper Wiley after antisemitic Twitter tirade

In several other tweets, Wiley claimed that Jews control "the Law," and made several claims about Israel not being a Jewish country, "Listen to me Jewish community Israel is not your country I'm sorry."

When confronted about his tweets, Wiley wrote "Anti Semetic? What's it called the way you rip us off in business then? What's that called when you tell us there is 1 rule for us and another rule for you lot? What's that called?" He added "Anti Semetic? Are u stupid? Do you know what these people do to the world?"

Police confirmed they had received complaints about Wiley.
Twitter has deleted some anti-Semitic statements on Wiley's account, but others remain, drawing criticism from other users of the social media platform.

Even for Twitter this is shocking," said Stephen Pollard, editor of the Jewish Chronicle.
Wiley, 41, whose real name is Richard Cowie, released a number one single in Britain in 2012 and had several other top 10 hits. He received a UK government honour for his contribution to music in 2018.
As a result of Wiley's antisemitic tweets, John Woolf, who had been the rapper's manager for a number of years, said that he had "cut all ties" with the rapper.

"Following Wiley's anti semitic tweets today we at @A_ListMGMT have cut all ties with him. There is no place in society for antisemitism," Woolf said on Twitter.

 

[Deleted member 11302]

One of the more recent scandals in good old Germany. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs hired a known Islamist sympathisers as part of their "Religion and Foreign Policy" programme. The woman who goes by the name Nurhan Soykan (shaking Merkel's hand in the article's picture) made news in the past by defending the Al-Quds marches. For those who don't know, the Al-Quds day is an invention of Iran's islamist revolutionaries to call for the destruction of Israel.

German Foreign Ministry hires Islamist who defends Israel’s destruction

"So she can promote more antisemitic al-Quds marches and justify hatred of the Jewish state.”

www.jpost.com

This was nowhere near the scandal that it should rightfully be, wanna know what had Germany debating the finer points of ethics these days?
Well I'll tell ya: In Berlin a police officer stopped a man, who was about to go on a vehicular rampage in his car, by drawing his gun and shouting "Hände hoch ,Du Wichser!", which roughly translates as; "Hands in the air, you j€rkoff!" The lack of decorum on the police officer's part had people questioning his professionalism (welcome to today's clown world).

Before I forget, Heiko Maas, who is Germany's Minister of Foreign Affairs and ultimately responsible for this hiring decision, once said that the atrocities of Ausschwitz are what made him go into politics, which makes this move even more laughable and retarded.

I swear to God, Germany's political class is populated by the biggest collection of tools and blistering idiots the world has seen over.

 

[Gaz]

Police probes UK rapper Wiley after antisemitic Twitter tirade

This all happened late last week, I think. He's actually doubled down since then and done similar stuff on his personal facebook account, and has since been kicked off that - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53560502

 

[Telmar]

He still has speaker' s corner in Hyde park.

 

[berkut76]

And here come self-hating Jews.

****************************

Seth Rogen says Israel ‘doesn’t make sense’ in interview with Marc Maron

Rogen, who grew up attending Jewish schools and Jewish camp in Vancouver, said he was “fed a huge amount of lies about Israel” and questioned why the state should exist. Maron, who often references his Jewishness in his standup comedy material, concurred.

Rogen: To me it just seems an antiquated thought process. If it is for religious reasons, I don’t agree with it, because I think religion is silly. If it is for truly the preservation of Jewish people, it makes no sense, because again, you don’t keep something you’re trying to preserve all in one place — especially when that place is proven to be pretty volatile, you know? ‘I’m trying to keep all these things safe, I’m gonna put them in my blender and hope that that’s the best place… that’ll do it.’ It doesn’t make sense to me. And I also think that as a Jewish person I was fed a huge amount of lies about Israel my entire life! They never tell you that — oh by the way, there were people there. They make it seem like it was just like sitting there, like the f***ing door’s open!…They forget to include the fact to every young Jewish person.

Maron: I get frightened to talk about it.

Rogen: I’m afraid of Jews! I’m 100% afraid of Jews.

The entire conversation was what Maron called “the most Jewy talk” he has had on his popular podcast, which has aired over 1,100 episodes. Rogen was on the show to discuss his upcoming film “An American Pickle,” about a Jewish immigrant who falls into a vat of pickles in New York in 1919 and wakes up 100 years later.

Rogen may have mixed feelings about his connection to Israel and his religious identity, as do many North American Jews, but his frequent exasperated and affectionate dialogues with his mother on Twitter, as well as his choice to make a Jewish-themed movie like American Pickle -- when surely he had many other options -- show that his Jewishness is a key part of his identity and one that he embraces. Evidently the same can’t be said about his connection to Israel.

 

[berkut76]

Antisemitic hate crimes are rising at an alarming pace, and according to the ADL, 2019 saw the highest level of antisemitic incidents since tracking began in 1979.

Only two months ago, as protests raged across our nation, Los Angeles experienced an explosion in antisemitism as kosher stores and synagogues were vandalized, looted, and burned.

The same has happened in cities across America as antisemitic incidents are sadly becoming more commonplace around the United States.
The problem is, instead of the Left condemning and strongly opposing these attacks, antisemitism has found a home in the Democratic Party and has become a shameful problem that the Left must confront.

Outright antisemitic statements from Democratic members of Congress have either been ignored or dismissed by party leaders and even if it is condemned no action is taken. The lack of action will doubtless lead to a rise in antisemitism in the party if Democrats continue to avoid the underlying problem. Politicians who spout any kind of antisemitic rhetoric must be shunned by both parties or else it slowly becomes accepted and normalized when party politics become more important than rejecting antisemitic hatred.

"The Democratic Party failed to condemn antisemitism, and that failure sent a message which Omar and Tlaib heard quite clearly. They were given a free pass to traffic in and promote antisemitism." writes Bethany Mandel for the Washington Examiner.
"The Rubicon has been crossed. One of the two major political parties in this country is openly accepting of antisemites in its midst. We have not even begun to understand what the ramifications of this new reality are."

The outright hypocrisy from the Left when it comes to antisemitism is also outright alarming.
As Mitch Albom writes: "Silence is compliance." That’s a popular sentence today. But you can’t be selective with your noise. Not against hate. For all the bigoted garbage stirred up against Jews last week, it was disturbingly quiet out there. We should think twice about why that is."
Apparently to the Left, it is not that big of a deal to post outright antisemitic images online, but when you support our flag, our country, and the people who died for it, that is unacceptable, hateful, and insensitive.

The BLM movement also has deep roots of antisemitism in their organization. At anti-racism protests around the country, antisemitic chants and signs were seen and heard as antisemitism was a major theme in many of their protests.
An organization that's stated goals are to fight bigotry and hatred, has been hijacked by antisemites spewing just the kind of hate they claim to fight, and for the most part, the leaders of the BLM movement are silent.

This applies to all those Democrat leaders who also support the BLM movement without calling out the vicious antisemitic roots embedded in the organization.
As the Democratic Party continues to lurch to the Left, they have a growing antisemitism problem which is no longer subtle. Although some Democrats have come out and condemned the antisemitism in the party, as long as they refuse to take action to eradicate it, it will continue to fester and grow. The Democratic Party must show commitment to stand against all forms of hatred, not just the ones that benefit them politically.

The rise of antisemitism on the Left and in America - opinion

 

[berkut76]

Former Kansas City Chiefs star tweets Jews involved in pedophilia

Johnson played for the Chiefs until 2009, when he was suspended for “conduct detrimental to the club” for a series of tweets using gay slurs. He was later waived by the team.

On Saturday, Johnson posted a video of Alan Dershowitz speaking to the pro-Israel organization Stand With Us in which the attorney said, in part, “We have earned the right to influence public debate, we have earned the right to be heard.”
Johnson’s accompanying tweet accused Jews of seeking to conceal “a lucrative market in pedophilia, human trafficking, child sex trafficking & torture.”

On Monday, Johnson noted the attention his tweets had garnered, posting: “I angered ‘Rabbis’ from here to Israel.”
An early July episode of the podcast is entitled “Anti-Semite.” The episode description reads: “This is not a war of races but a war of nations. If you don’t know who controls the propaganda in this war, how can you tell who is the real enemy? Those who are not a nation have conspired to keep the true nation of Israel asleep and will use race and Hollywood marriages like The Smiths to do it.”
Another podcast episode description reads, in part: “What is the true nation of Israel? Where does the bloodline really come from? What is Satan’s scheme in today’s world?”

Johnson’s tweets are still up as of Tuesday morning.