Other Post Vietnam era body armour

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Hey guys! Was just wondering what your views were on the body armour (M57 and M58 and the famous "Chicken Plate" armour) that was around during the Vietnam war? I've heard that people didn't like it, or it was useless or needed 'plates removed before you were even half-comfortable, but i'd like to hear from guys who were there (I know there's a fair few Vets on here)and used it on a regular/daily basis. What did you like/dislike about it? How did you modify it to make it more comfortable/effective? Were you issued it and decided not to use it? All replies appreciated. Ta, Rob hel; sal;

On a slightly different note, the amount of 'personalisation' of kit and equipment that went on during Vietnam was huge...did you have any personal/unit emblems (official or otherwise) on your kit/vehicles? And why/when did it stop?
 
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I am not sure of the nomenclature, we called it a flak jacket. I don't think we thought of it as body armor or that it was very effective. The one I had, had padded shoulders which was really great for carrying a heavy pack. Then there were ceramic plates (?) I removed them. It made them much nicer to carry. It also had two larger pockets, one for frags and one for some magazines.
 
Thanks, Hollis :-) As far as the nomenclature goes, they're STILL called flak jackets. I heard somewhere that they were supposed to protect against hits by AK rounds...which seems more than alittle far-fetched. I never knew that they had ceramic plates, where were they situated in the jacket? Was it personal choice to wear them, or was it mandatory? (and the same question with regards to helmets, bloody heavy things).
 
“Chicken plates” were the name given to ceramic body armor chest and back protectors worn by flight crews. The back plate was usually not worn but was placed under the crewmen’s seats. Priorities, you understand. The pilots did not need back plates because they sat in an armored seat made of the same ceramic material. The armor would stop a .30 caliber bullet but not a .50, so you had to be sure of the bullets being shot at you before you jumped in front of one. I actually wanted two chicken plates, but found that it was considered less then manly to wear more then one at a time, besides all the old timers had the extras, so I just opted for an extra large. A “chickenplate” slipped over the head and fastened across the front with the Velcro band. It could be released quickly with the snaps on the left shoulder. It also had a totally useless pocket right in the middle of the chest.

It was around February 12, 1967 that I arrived at Lane Army Airfield to join the 174th Assault Helicopter Company (AHC), and was assigned as a crewchief on a UH-1D slick that was in maintenance, but within a couple of days she was pulled out and cleared for her maintenance test flight. I stood by her all alone until finally an aged, stooped, but kindly looking CW-3 approached and asked if she was ready.

The CW-3 settled in the seat and adjusted the straps. I noticed that his name tag said “Hamilton.”
“I forgot my chicken plate, run to that aircraft and get it,” the old sage instructed me. Dutifully, I went to the designated aircraft, the maintenance ship, call sign “Witchdoctor” and looked inside. The only chest protector I could see was inscribed in large letters with the name of “Cooper.” I returned to my aircraft and told him what I had found.

“Yeh, that’s mine, get it.” Again I ran to “Witchdoctor” and grabbed said chicken plate and ran back to my aircraft. I handed it to him as I waited to slide his seat panel forward. He pulled out a black magic marker and crossed out “Cooper” and wrote “Hamilton” underneath. Only then did I notice that right above the crossed out “Cooper” was “Hamilton” also crossed out. Above that was “Cooper” crossed out. Above that was “Hamilton” and so on. Mr. Cooper was another CW-3, a shorter, more crotchety version of Mr. Hamilton.

He saw me watching him, and as he put it on, he said, “Don’t worry, Son. The first time I got in trouble in this man’s Army was for having buffalo s**t on my spear.”

We were also issued flak jackets, which most slick crewmen sat on, again, priorities. Our flak jackets, unlike the Marines, were made of layers of titanium so they were pretty flexible and weren't really very heavy.

When I transferred to gunships, we did not wear the chicken plate because it restricted movement, instead we took the panels out and placed them under the seat and just wore flak jackets.

Checken plates worked - once. A guy I knew was a slick crewchief on a combat assault into an LZ we called "Little Joe." Charley had dug holes all over the LZ, hid in them and covered them over with cardboard and grass. When the slicks started to land, cardboard flew all over the place and Charley, startled because his cover was blown (literally) was staring down the M-60 barrels of just as startled doorgunners. My friend took an AK-47 round right in the chest from about 6 feet away, the vest stopped the round, but almost disintigrated in the process. The VC took a 7.62 round in the chest but wasn't wearing a chicken plate, so any scientific analysis of the results was out of the question. The chicken plate was useless after that hit.

The combat assault was aborted, of 14 aircraft that went in, only about 6 made it back to base, the rest conducting emergancy landings at various locations on the way home, no lives were lost on our side. But Charley found himself pinned in his holes while the gunships played "whack a mole."

Rotor
 
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Holmes, check our website, 174th AHC. We had many of our aircraft personalized. The 132cnd ASHC had some great nose art on thier Chinooks.

RW
 
Thanks, Hollis :-) As far as the nomenclature goes, they're STILL called flak jackets. I heard somewhere that they were supposed to protect against hits by AK rounds...which seems more than alittle far-fetched. I never knew that they had ceramic plates, where were they situated in the jacket? Was it personal choice to wear them, or was it mandatory? (and the same question with regards to helmets, bloody heavy things).


This is by memory, so,.. The plates we had, were many, they where maybe the size of a pack of cigarettes and over lapped. For some reason, I remember someone calling them "flaps".. who knows. They were in a liner between in the jacket. I maybe off, it was a long time ago. I am not sure if they were just in the front only. I did like the padded shoulders. Our pack straps had no padding and where thin, they kept those straps from cutting into your shoulder. I think we tended to carry too much. They where more for shrapnel, There was some pros and cons opinion about them, just like helmets.



Yes Flack were mandatory, like wearing your bucket (helmet), There was some flexibility depending on the job. We were not suppose to have bush hats, but I managed to find one. Also Dog tags, one was worn around the neck the other laced to the you boot,
 
@Rotorwash I know very little about Chicken Plates (mainly from Bob Mason's book "Chickenhawk"), and finding pictures, esp colour pictures, of crew wearing them has proven next to impossible. I did manage to find a set for sale some years ago for $150 (due to the exchange rate at the time, it would have been around £75) but the store wouldn't sell overseas, all the "security" stuff. I'm still laughing at the Cooper/Hamilton scenario (if it ain't nailed down...!), but at least they shared it! Regarding your friends 'Whack-a-Charlie' fun, was he issued a new plate or a whole new vest on his return to base? Sitting on a plate or two to protect your priorities-definitely! :-P Thanks for that, I'll check out the 174thAHC site when i'm next on a PC.

@Hollis The method of tying one tag on your boot and the other round your neck is still in use today-the few ex-regs who joined my T.A Company always did that for weekends and exercises. The reason I asked about whether flaks and buckets were mandatory is i've seen so many pictures and footage of Vietnam where the troops seem to mix and match kit, so you'd have a platoon of 'grunts on patrol and some would be wearing helmets/bandanna's while others wouldn't, and the same with flaks.
 
In the Vietnam discussion I posted a series about Lam Son 719. In there is a picture of a downed pilot, survival radio in hand anxiously looking skyward for his redemption. He is wearing the ultimate fashion in chicken plates.

The crewchief who got his plate shot up was issued a whole new vest. I understand there was some new underwear issued that day. I was a gunship crewchief so I got to laugh about it.

RW
 
The combat assault was aborted, of 14 aircraft that went in, only about 6 made it back to base, the rest conducting emergancy landings at various locations on the way home, no lives were lost on our side. But Charley found himself pinned in his holes while the gunships played "whack a mole."

Rotor[/quote]

Interesting terminology... I gotta wonder if the whole idea for the "Whack-a-mole" gaming industry wasn't started by a Vietnam Veteran who happened to be a gunship pilot.
 
Makes you wonder. Normally we never dealt with such a profusion of holes in an open area. When we first moved into Duc Pho there were spider holes every where, and very sophisticated arrangements they were. They would bury a rectangular frame that was angled, then a top that fit down in the frame that was like a shallow box they would fill with dirt and leaves. The stump of a tree would be nailed in the middle as a handle. Very effective, I have a picture of one, I don;t know if I posted it or not.
 
What don't you understand, Romero? Tell us what confuses you and we'll help you to understand it ;-)
 
He was a useless low life spamming **** buddy
His post and himself have been deleted
 
Vietnam era body armor

I served with F Troop 8th Cavalry from Mar'69 - Mar '70. At that time we were based at Ky Ha Point(the north end of the base at Chu Lai) home of the 23rd Infantry Division HQ.
Our mission changed like the wind, but mainly we were "eyes" of the northern half of the 23rd's AO, supporting the 198th LIB, 196th LIB and the 1/1 Armored Cavalry. We flew daily VR missions in that area, sometimes ranging as far as the western border of Vietnam and peeking into that "other country" checking none infiltration routes. To my way of thinking we were there to provide close air support on combat assaults and support of friendly forces in "tactical situations" (fire fights).
Back to the chicken plate question/discussion, the wearing the "Chicken Plate" was not an option - our SOP mandated it. The pilots of our Scout platoon (OH-6A), Lift platoon (UH-1H) and the pilots of the Weapons platoon (AH-1G) all worn the one (1) piece ceramic; as for crew-chiefs and door-gunners some wore front & back(all wore the front plate).
I read a comment earlier that the pocket/pouch on the front center of the "carrier" was useless - not so in the case of the aircraft commander, it was perfect for holding the SOI(a short nylon cord used a lanyard was used to attached it to it).
I was fortunate enough to never have it stop a bullet, but was always comforted by the fact that it was there, it became so much of everyday life. Even when I returned to the states and served as an IP at Tactics, for months I'd look around the cockpit looking for my "Chicken Plate".
 
Hello Twig, welcome to the site. When I first met the Blue Ghosts they were 7/17th Cav with all new aircraft. We worked with them around LZ Center and East and points west and north.

You are right about pilots and chicken plates, it was mandatory. Slick crewchiefs only wore the front plate. Gunship crewchiefs and gunners on C and M models had the option and after getting smacked in the chin while trying to reload the ammo cans in flight it was an easy decision to opt for a flack jacket. If I were in a LOH I definately would want front, back, underneath and anything else I could get.

I'm glad someone actually found a use for that silly little pocket, everything I tried to put in it blew out.

RW
 

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