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Politics BLM protests across the US

Ivan le Fou said:
Yeah, things are doing so great for that brand new commune thingy...

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Wasn’t there some similar commune type takeover of parts of Paris during the ‘68 student riots?
 
riderboy said:
Wasn’t there some similar commune type takeover of parts of Paris during the ‘68 student riots?
Click to expand...

I know of the May 68 barricades, but not of any "commune takeover".

There was an event that took place in 1871 though, and lasted for two months, that was called La Commune. Which was, in very short, a revolutionary movement.
But I am not versed in that period, I won't be able to provide any meaningful information on the subject.
 
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berkut76 said:
Yeah, it looks the notion of defunding the police is not taking hold even in liberal cities. In short, this will happen only if some police responsibilities, for example like responding to overdose calls will be taken over by a different organization. here is how backtracking looks like:

‘Defund the police’: Advocates say it means reimagining policing, not getting rid of it

But the rapid rise of “defund” ideas comes in the middle of a presidential campaign, widespread unrest and a pandemic that has the nation’s anxieties in overdrive. Its advocates worry that the timing leaves the concept vulnerable to attack for what they insist it’s not — eliminating police departments.

“No one’s talking about a situation where tomorrow, there’s some magical switch and there are no police,” Alex Vitale, a sociology professor at Brooklyn College and author of “The End of Policing,” told CNN. “It’s hard to reduce these ideas down to a cardboard sign or a tweet.

“We’re talking about looking at our gross over-reliance on policing and searching in every possible way to replace that with alternatives designed to build up people, to build up communities rather than criminalizing them,” Vitale said.

Nevertheless, “‘defund the police’ is a terrible phrase,” George Lakoff, the retired UC Berkeley professor who has long been a messaging guru to Democrats and progressive groups, told The Chronicle. “You need the police. It’s irresponsible (to use it) because you’re not going to take away the police.”

The challenge, Lakoff said, is “that it takes several sentences to explain.”

The concept generally refers to shrinking police responsibility and delegating some of law enforcement’s duties to other experts — for example, having social workers respond to homelessness complaints or health care workers handle people with substance abuse issues.

Fearful of diving into unknown political waters, many Democratic politicians — even those leading the call for reforms — are backing away from the phrase, if not the concept.

That list starts with Biden, who spent much of his career boasting of his support for the 1994 federal crime bill that put 100,000 more police officers on the street. Last year, he said some of it was successful, some wasn’t. He told CBS on Monday that, “No, I don’t support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness.”

New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker said on “Meet the Press” that “it’s not a slogan I will use,” even though he said he agreed with the “sentiment and substance” of it and encouraged people not to “dismiss it” just because of its name.


Sen. Kamala Harris, who co-sponsored federal police reform legislation with Booker this week, parried the question from interviewer Meghan McCain on ABC’s “The View,” asking her, “How are you defining ‘defund the police?’”

The California Democrat said that “we need to reimagine how we are achieving public safety in America” so that cities aren’t spending “one-third of their budgets” on the police.

Similarly, Gov. Gavin Newsom said Tuesday in Oakland that he did not support defunding departments if it meant “eliminating” police. Instead, he preferred “reimagining” law enforcement.


In San Francisco, Chief Scott said Monday that he was willing to defund a portion of his department’s budget in response to calls for reform.

“We’re at a time in policing in this country where the whole world is speaking to us, and we need to hear what’s being said,” Scott said during an online forum hosted by the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club. “And what’s being said is we have to change the way we do policing in this country. And I think, for me, I’m open to that.”
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"The challenge, Lakoff said, is “that it takes several sentences to explain.”

Translation: It's probably bullish*t. I think perhaps those advocating such a change be required to spend time as a beat cop. How else can they possibly know the dangers, stresses and realities of being a cop? Seminars and University faculty meetings are great, but not necessarily connected to life on the street.
 
Chazman said:
So what do you suggest? It's not the untaxed cigarettes or the counterfeit money, it's the escalation in trying to maintain control in a situation with an uncooperative person. I agree, if the situation escalates the perpetrator doesn't deserve to die in the scuffle, but I also don't think the police ought to say, oh he not cooperating, lets just walk away.
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I'm going to go with "let's create fewer situations where the Police are required to step in and create an opportunity for things to escalate". The tabacco thing is a fine example - the police were being used as a revenue service. Eric Garner wasn't hurting anyone except for the state of New York which wanted its cut of the money. In Fergusson, the local police force was responsible for 30-40% of the city's revenue through levying fines and through asset confiscation - much of it over things like "your lawn is too high". Followed by further fines when the original couldn't be paid. Assets were seized under the "war on drugs" and far from this being applied to the drug "king pins", the average seizure was worth $2000. When it costs more than that to fight the seizure in court, you're never going to see your car or playstation or what-ever back.

If peoples main interaction with the police is them taking your money, it really can't come as a surprise that they're not respected and that their orders are regarded as enforcing not the law but the desire for $$$

And then lets make sure that bad cops are properly punished and in a reasonable amount of time. It took over five years for the officer who killed Eric Garner to be fired. The NY Police Union are fighting that right now. The Broward-Coward officer Brian Miller who refused to do anything during the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting except hide behind his car got his $135,000 per year job back with back pay recently. Job well done.
 
riderboy said:
Against international sources? Not really. If you are saying that extra-judicial murders committed by your police forces are OK because they are criminals and "deserved it", that sounds a bit weak. George Floyd was a career criminal too with drugs in his system when he was killed. I dare you to find anyone who will justify his killing based on that. The vast, vast majority of our cops are good cops.
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My point was you were the ones that never trust outside orgs with agendas, right? The extra judicial killings that were taken to court netted the coppers 40 years behind bars. What most people do not hear outside is the National Police actually invites lawyers, Comission on Human Rights and other orgs representative when they make a raid or anti narcotics mission... so far non have taken the offer of joining them. While it is not OK, the majority see the actions as justified , meaning it was a proper encounter. If you notice they are using the same cases over and over again.

The vast majority of the cops are good, I agree with that and made that clear with McWarpig, but I am putting the video because there are also bad cops out there and thats the reason for the protests. Which from a lot of the posters here seem to put a shade over by making it political or making it all about an org like ANTIFA, which is basically a bunch of kids who have been bullied and think that throwing bricks somehow makes them feel like a militant fighter.

Or maybe that just me, terrorists over hear brings fer to a population, rather than make you think how tight their pants are in rallies.
 
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This is doing the rounds in UK Twitter circles at the minute . An attack on officers in London . It's all a bit bizarre from the footage but thought I'd share .
 
TheKiwi said:
I'm going to go with "let's create fewer situations where the Police are required to step in and create an opportunity for things to escalate". The tabacco thing is a fine example - the police were being used as a revenue service. Eric Garner wasn't hurting anyone except for the state of New York which wanted its cut of the money. In Fergusson, the local police force was responsible for 30-40% of the city's revenue through levying fines and through asset confiscation - much of it over things like "your lawn is too high". Followed by further fines when the original couldn't be paid. Assets were seized under the "war on drugs" and far from this being applied to the drug "king pins", the average seizure was worth $2000. When it costs more than that to fight the seizure in court, you're never going to see your car or playstation or what-ever back.

If peoples main interaction with the police is them taking your money, it really can't come as a surprise that they're not respected and that their orders are regarded as enforcing not the law but the desire for $$$

And then lets make sure that bad cops are properly punished and in a reasonable amount of time. It took over five years for the officer who killed Eric Garner to be fired. The NY Police Union are fighting that right now. The Broward-Coward officer Brian Miller who refused to do anything during the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting except hide behind his car got his $135,000 per year job back with back pay recently. Job well done.
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Yeah, hard to argue. Trust me, no one likes police being used as revenue generators other than the local government who task them with that. The Broward County officer who did nothing while children were being killed - when he could have, disgusts me. I mean, saving the lives of children is probably the highest calling of law enforcement, and when the universe converged this man with that mission at that moment, he completely failed.
 
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