Mil News It was Nerve Agent

[Black Pawn]

Lol! Few photoes from Salisbury.

And last but not least:

When terrorist from Syria will send forces with anti-chemical suits, I'll believe that they even try to imitate their fear about CW.
Nothing offensive @Bombardier , but sometimes some of British "specialists" fooling around like real clowns...

 

[rtomedic]

ZZ top must be doing a sharp dressed man music video there??? LOL

 

[Black Pawn]

Theresa May is going to blame Russia (especially rich Russian guys, living in UK)...
Also there are another opinion, that it was provocation of some US-politics, Vil Mirzayanov
https://www.facebook.com/vil.mirzayanov
and a part of British society, who want steal Russian money without court and official investigation, just on the wave of Russophobical hysteria.

 

[Bombardier]

Well you can continue with your paranoid conspiracy if you like but I doubt that the 'Rich Russian Guys' money would compare with the potential loss of revenue the British Government will incur by any sanctions imposed on Russia. Lets not forget we have British business interests in Russia such as BP so I will leave it there on that point.

But Lets be clear....
No evidence exists at this point in time that a Russian person was directly responsible (that is my understanding but if I am wrong let me know)
The information available however suggests the nerve agent was manufactured by the Russian Government, it is a specific nerve agent that can trace its roots to Russia (that is what has been reported). Even if no further evidence comes to light that a Russian person committed the offending act, based on the provenance of the nerve agent (if the info is correct) the Russian authorities are culpable . How does a super power like Russia allow the loss of such a potent chemical?.

Now lets flip the coin

If a person was killed in Russia using a nerve agent directly linked to say the UK, how do you think the Russian Government and indeed people would react?.

Russophobical hysteria

You keep saying that but I dont feel that way nor have I ever met anybody in the UK who does. In fact (and i think i have said this before) I have respect for Russia, its people and its cultures (although some current events have me questioning why) what spoils it is that I keep seeing posts from Russians, and not just here that actually believe it.

 

[Black Pawn]

But Lets be clear....
No evidence exists at this point in time that a Russian person was directly responsible (that is my understanding but if I am wrong let me know)
The information available however suggests the nerve agent was manufactured by the Russian Government, it is a specific nerve agent that can trace its roots to Russia (that is what has been reported). Even if no further evidence comes to light that a Russian person committed the offending act, based on the provenance of the nerve agent (if the info is correct) the Russian authorities are culpable . How does a super power like Russia allow the loss of such a potent chemical?.

Oh... First of all, loss of control was in 1992, when Vil Mirzayanov escaped in the USA. Second, I can not believe, that MI-6 (or other government organisation) can not waste 320$ and buy "Weapons of Mass Casualties and Terrorism Response Handbook" published in USA in 2006, or visit a library and get it for time for free.
Very interesting book, and there are words, that poison gas "Novichok" can easily be produced by terrorists, from not-controlled components on usual pesticide factory.
Third - this gas was also stored in other Soviet repubics, first of all in Uzbekistan.

Now lets flip the coin

If a person was killed in Russia using a nerve agent directly linked to say the UK, how do you think the Russian Government and indeed people would react?.

We'll start investigation, and we'll found the criminal(s). There are no need to do any action without knowledge.

You keep saying that but I dont feel that way nor have I ever met anybody in the UK who does.

You can visit, for example, arrse.co.uk

In fact (and i think i have said this before) I have respect for Russia, its people and its cultures (although some current events have me questioning why) what spoils it is that I keep seeing posts from Russians, and not just here that actually believe it.

I'm also member of other British forums, and those guys are not so polite.

 

[Bombardier]

You have to understand the British Tommy ( in general I mean) most of the soldiers from the sites you quote are ex BAOR or British Army of the Rhine (Me too) Our entire existence was to defend the West from a perceived threat. In addition you have to understand the British soldiers sense of humour (I am sure you never will) making fun of people in the worse way is like saying " I like You, tell me all about you" & " If you cant take it go away" trust me most of what you read on the British sites was sounding you out and it sounds like you didnt bode well. Try not to take what people say so personally, you are different to us in many ways but in other ways very similar.

I want to get along with you, help me do that without the aggression and all will be well

 

[Black Pawn]

Ok. You are too kind with me, @Bombardier . And yes, as additional to my previouse answer, we would do investigation with UN rules and international treaties.
https://www.un.org/disarmament/wmd/secretary-general-mechanism/

Secretary-General’s Mechanism for Investigation of Alleged Use of Chemical and Biological Weapons


The Secretary-General’s Mechanism to carry out prompt investigations in response to allegations brought to his attention concerning the possible use of chemical and bacteriological (biological) and toxin weapons was developed in the late 1980s. Triggered by a request from any Member State, the Secretary-General is authorized to launch an investigation including dispatching a fact-finding team to the site(s) of the alleged incident(s) and to report to all United Nation Member States. This is to ascertain in an objective and scientific manner facts of alleged violations of the 1925 Geneva Protocol, which bans the use of chemical and biological weapons, or other relevant rules of customary international law.

The roster of experts and laboratories provided by Member States and the Guidelines and Procedures for the conduct of investigations constitute the key elements of the Mechanism. Member States encouraged the Secretary-General in September 2006 to update the roster of experts and laboratories, as well as the technical guidelines and procedures, available to him for the timely and efficient investigation of alleged use.

The Office for Disarmament Affairs has been working with Member States to update the roster of experts and laboratories and the technical appendices of the guidelines and procedures so that they fully correspond with the rapid and substantial developments that have occurred in the biological area since the 1980s and also take into account the entry-into-force of the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) and the establishment of theOrganisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) in 1997.

The Office for Disarmament Affairs organized, in 2007, two meetings of a group of experts with the participation of representatives of a number of relevant international organizations. The group discussed the update of the 1989 Guidelines and Procedures. It decided to leave the main document from 1989 unaltered and recognized that a broad review process would necessarily entail the direct involvement of Member States. The group prepared revisions of the Appendices associated with the guidelines and procedures, in particular taking into account the developments in the biological area. Theupdated Appendices focus on relevant technical biological aspects of investigation of alleged use.

In accordance with the current Guidelines and Procedures “any interested Member State may designate to the Secretary-General relevant specialized training or courses available to qualified experts in support of their possible role on his behalf in carrying out investigations of possible use of chemical, biological and toxin agents, in order to facilitate achievement on a common basis of understanding and operation.” The first-ever training course for experts was offered by the Government of Sweden and was conducted in cooperation with ODA in Umea, Sweden from 25 May to 5 June 2009.

In order to further cooperation and enhance technical capabilities of investigation of alleged use, the United Nations and the World Health Organization (WHO) signed a Memorandum of Understanding concerning WHO’s support to the Secretary-General’s mechanism for investigation of alleged use.

 

[Bombardier]

I guess we will have to wait and see brother, only time will tell

 

[Black Pawn]

Ok. Let's wait. And yes, one funny music video, based on British comedy film "Threads" and a popular Russian children song:

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Missiles are slowly floating away into the distance,
Dont wait meeting with them one more time
And although its a pity of America
Europeans fate is ahead.

Nuclear bomb flies, swings, -
Don't wait good!
Even if you will bury in the ground,
There are no escape from the shock wave!

As a tablecloth, tablecloth CYANOGEN chloride spreads
And clog a gas mask.
Everyone, everyone in the best believe,
Falling, falling nuclear bomb.

The sun was shining over the earth suddenly,
And over the head the smoke is.
Your friend was just walking with you,
And now he is fried.

Hydrogen sun scorched grass,
Kangaroo mutate in dogs.
Once again, the aboriginal people had rights:
Red flag is winds over Canberra!
Hoorray!

As a tablecloth, tablecloth diphosgene creeps
And hammered in the ear, nose, and eyes.
Everyone, everyone in the best believe,
But not everyone has a gas mask.

Maybe we offended someone in vain,
Dropped fifteen megatons.
Now burn and melt the ground
Where once was the Pentagon.

USA tanks had been perfectly melted,
And why they released by a factory?
Ah, what a pity that this explosion ends
Would be better if it lasted a whole year!

As a tablecloth, the tablecloth, chlorpicrin lining
And clog our mask.
Everyone, everyone in the best believe,
Maybe somebody will survive of us.

But the song does not end,
We will build a new training range!
All that will then remain,
We stick to the blue wagon!

As a tablecloth dibenzoxazepine the creeps
And clog our mask.
Everyone, everyone believe in the best...
Falling, falling nuclear bomb

Diphenylchlorarsine cloth lining
And clog our mask.
Everyone, everyone believe in the best!
Falling, falling nuclear bomb!

The tablecloth bromobenzyl cyanide is lining
And hammered in the ear, nose, and eyes.
Everyone, everyone in the best believe, -
Maybe somebody will survive of us.

 

[Bombardier]

You have shown me your funny side, I like it (If not slightly disturbing)

 

[Bombardier]

Theresa May has expelled 23 Russian Diplomats

Mathieu Boulègue, a Russia expert at Chatham House, another think tank, said: “The Kremlin will understand this as a very mild response. Putin is unlikely to be worried by this.”

There has to be trust, and there isnt any and as far as I can remember never has been. The Russian Government's response has been less than diplomatic, this does not help in East & west relations. But exactly what the world expected.

I have asked once how Russia would react if they discovered a Nerve Agent used in Russia that was made by the UK , USA or elsewhere, I got a less than useful response.

I can only imagine how the world could be if we had more trust, I doubt that I will see it in my lifetime

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/14/the-uk-sanctions-imposed-on-russia-by-theresa-may

 

[Black Pawn]

Theresa May has expelled 23 Russian Diplomats

For what? If she really thinks that Russian state is responsible for an attack with the WMD - she can declare the war. If she wants Russian help in the investigation - she have to ask for help, as it was written in the treaties and UN instructions.

There has to be trust, and there isnt any and as far as I can remember never has been. The Russian Government's response has been less than diplomatic, this does not help in East & west relations. But exactly what the world expected.

What will you do, if someone will blame you without any reasons and/or proves?

I have asked once how Russia would react if they discovered a Nerve Agent used in Russia that was made by the UK , USA or elsewhere, I got a less than useful response.

Russia is lawful (even burocratic) state. If there are crime we start investigation. If there are crime with UK-produced weapon, car, smartphone or anything else - we'll ask UK for help in the investigation. If there are incident with the chemical weapon - we start investigation according UN rules and our signed treaties.
What we surely shall not to do - is to blame anybody without very seriouse proves.

I can only imagine how the world could be if we had more trust, I doubt that I will see it in my lifetime

What kind of trust do you expect, if your politics (and some ordinary citizens) blame Russia before investigation was even started?

You know:
"If there are a problem,
Anywhere in the world,
Then the Russian murders,
Were surely involved".

 

[Black Pawn]

The Empire strikes back.
Gazprom said, that they close their London's office and move it in the Sanct-Petersburg.
And one more funny song:

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[Black Pawn]

They are strange guys, this Frenches....
They want something called "proves" before do any actions.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ing-on-britain-poisoning-affair-idUSKCN1GQ2H2

“We don’t do fantasy politics. Once the elements are proven, then the time will come for decisions to be made,” Griveaux told a news conference shortly after May said she was expelling Russian diplomats and suspending bilateral talks.

 

[Bombardier]

Well all I know is what I have heard, the allegation is that it is a Russian made nerve agent.
I dont know if it is or not and I have many questions in my head about who, how and why.

I guess we could talk about this back and forth all day long, but I wont, I will just wait and see what further evidence becomes available, including evidence that may exonerate Russia.

Difficult to discuss any further with the limited information we have.

In all honesty though, and I have thought this from the start the evidence is weak at best

 

[Black Pawn]

Well all I know is what I have heard, the allegation is that it is a Russian made nerve agent.

And it is not full truth, too...
If it was one of Novichok gases (I have seriouse doubts in it) it was designed in USSR, and produced in the different republics. USA had creator of this gases for twenty years, and they, or anybody else was able to create it. Do you believe that small amounts of all this gases were not produced by the clever guys in Porton-Down research facilities, just for testing new gas-mask and chemical suites?

I dont know if it is or not and I have many questions in my head about who, how and why.

It's you. But you government is different. They have answers before they have questions or any facts. I think, that they are not interested in any facts.

I guess we could talk about this back and forth all day long, but I wont, I will just wait and see what further evidence becomes available, including evidence that may exonerate Russia.

Do you believe in Presumption of Innocence? You know:

The presumption of innocence, sometimes referred to by the Latin expression ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof is on the one who declares, not on one who denies), is the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty.

Difficult to discuss any further with the limited information we have.

Sure. But it is not a problem for your government.

In all honesty though, and I have thought this from the start the evidence is weak at best

Sure. In fact, Russophobic hysteria don't need even a weak evidence.

 

[Chazman]

Are you seriously saying that Russia had nothing to do with this? Are you pulling my leg?? I wouldn't be surprised if Putin himself gave the order directly. This is a classic KGB operation.

 

[Black Pawn]

Are you seriously saying that Russia had nothing to do with this?

I don't know. I very doubt in it. There was no reasons to kill him, at least because he was mercied by Russian judge. You need big amount of papers and very seriouse reasons to kill somebody who is already mercied by a judge. Especially in the days right before elections, when all security services have more that enough of seriouse job. To use untrusted cheap gas for the poisoning - it's not a professional style, too.

Are you pulling my leg?? I wouldn't be surprised if Putin himself gave the order directly. This is a classic KGB operation.

If it was "classical KGB operation" he was dead in minutes without evidences and chances from disease or accident.

It is a classical "The Benny Hill Show" and "Monty Python’s Flying Circus".

 

[Black Pawn]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-defies-may-over-russia-37b27qd2s

Russia to expel British diplomats ‘soon’

French volte-face as Macron sides with May over spy attack

updated
Sam Coates, Deputy Political Editor | Francis Elliott, Political Editor |Charles Bremner, Paris | Tom Kington, Rome | Deborah Haynes | Tom Parfitt
March 15 2018, 10:40am, The Times

President Macron’s spokesman accused Theresa May of “fantasy politics” for the speed of her decision to retaliate against RussiaSTEFAN ROUSSEAU/GETTY IMAGES
The Russian foreign minister confirmed this morning that Moscow will retaliate against the expulsion of 23 of its diplomats from Britain.

Sergei Lavrov said the UK position, blaming the poisoning of a former Russian spy and his daughter in Salisbury on the Kremlin, was irresponsible and not backed up by evidence. Mr Lavrov was quoted by Russia’s official news agency as saying the accusations were unacceptable and that British diplomats would soon be expelled.

 

[Black Pawn]

Fight between British elites.
Expectation:

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Reality:

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