Mil News It was Nerve Agent

[The Hood]

Sergei Skripal was deliberately poisoned with nerve agent, say police

The former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were deliberately poisoned with a nerve agent in a case that is now being treated as attempted murder, the police counter-terrorism chief has said.

Scotland Yard assistant chief commissioner Mark Rowley said the police officer who was first to the spot where Skripal was found in Salisbury on Sunday afternoon was “seriously ill” in hospital. His condition had deteriorated, Rowley said, adding: “Wiltshire police are providing full support to his family.”

Describing the poisoning as a major incident, Rowley said scientists had identified the substance used. He refused to reveal what the specific poison was.

Read more - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...al-for-witnesses-as-cobra-meeting-takes-place

 

[BravoZulu]

Wow!

Shades of Georgi Markov here although poor Georgi was offed by the Bulgarian secret police by shooting a rycin pellet into his leg via an umbrella gun in the late 70's (007 comes to life)

 

[Bombardier]

True and smacks of James Bond a little

 

[Black Pawn]

Ha! And what is the distance between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_CBRN_Centre at Winterbourne Gunner and Salisbury? 4 miles or more?
Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

[The Hood]

That is an interesting observation, very strange indeed

 

[Black Pawn]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/57612...putin-ex-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-poisoned/

And what if Theresa May's investigators will find British traces of this poison agent? Will she make sanctions against British Oligarchs?

 

[Black Pawn]

That is an interesting observation, very strange indeed

Sure... Real scenario for a Holliwood film - Drunken Russian agents, in Ushankas, with Balalaikas, riding on the Gigantic Battle Bears, stealth in The Secret British Laboratory, steal a nerve agent and poison The Freedom Lover and his Beautiful Daughter...
I mean, in British Sci-Fi films Russians usually are bit more human-like, than in American ones.

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[Gordus]

Wouldn't be the first case of suspicious deaths in the UK.

Badri Patarkatsishvili, an oligarch from Georgia and an opponent of Putin ( ironicaly also a man who helped Putin climb his ladder to power ), part of a four men group of Oligarchs that included Boris Berezovsky, died in 2008 in his mansion in Surrey.

Officialy the cause was heart failure, and many suspect poisoning because he had enemies both in the current Russian and former Georgian government, both being prime suspects in those theories. There are supposedly substances used by intelligence agencies that cause heart failure but leave virtualy no trace. If that was realy the case, it would be very convenient since he supposedly had health issues and his father died of heart failure at relatively young age. But then agian, several attempts had already been made on his life a year before his death.

None of that would be shocking tbh because getting rid of political opponents / threats in such ugly fashion is not that uncommon either in Russia and not too long ago in Georgia as well.

However considering Scotland Yard made such an open statement about Skripal, poisoning seems to be the case here actualy.

 

[Bombardier]

I wonder though if the Defence CBRN Centre will be looking a little closer at their staff?, seems like a strange coincidence that they are so close to where he was poisoned dont ya think

 

[Gordus]

That or maybe it is purposefuly convenient to keep investigation focused on the wrong places.

AFAIK that centre focuses only on training military personnel in fighting CBRN threats, not actualy researching or developing substances to utilize in warfare. IIRC the UK does not operate such labs since the 90s.

 

[Bombardier]

Ahhhh I did not know that and I live there
Not in that area the UK I mean
Thanks

 

[Gordus]

It's a good thing and no worries, most people in Georgia also don't know about the fact that their tiny country hosts the largest underground virological research lab in the region, which is also funded by the US military. I personaly would be concerned about such things. I mean anything happen to it, all of the Caucasus and large parts of Russia would in all likelyhood be affected by a spam of various viruses

UK leading by example ^^

 

[Black Pawn]

@Gordus , thanks. Death of Badri Patarkatsishvili is an example how clever guys can work - without seriouse problems, without sensations, fuss, hupla and hullabaloo.
For example, clever guys never use Po-210 as poisoning agent. They use it in the lead and berillium jacket as neutron emmiter - no traces except changing of microstructure of glass object nearby.
In fact, chemical weapon researched and produced not in CBRN range (its only tested here), but at the nearby - in Porton Down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porton_Down

 

[Gordus]

@Gordus , thanks. Death of Badri Patarkatsishvili is an example how clever guys can work

It certainly is a nasty and sneaky way to get rid of people.

Boris Berezovsky is also treated as a suspicious case of death, but in that case more physical.

Researching but not producing. Since the Chemical Weapons Convention was enforced in 1997 the UK are not allowed to operate any facilities or institutions that produce chemical weapons. Ofc I can't go there and check that, especialy since its not restricted to just one area of research but probably other, but that's how it officialy is and is supposed to be. Maintaining such facilities present a local / dometisc risk in the first place.

 

[Black Pawn]

It's a good thing and no worries, most people in Georgia also don't know about the fact that their tiny country hosts the largest underground virological research lab in the region, which is also funded by the US military. I personaly would be concerned about such things.

Everybody (who are interested) informed about it. Not everybody knows, that under control of Anna Jvania they have additional work of heroin production from Afgan's popper, delivered by US-planes into Georgia. Prepared heroin usually was delivered in Kosovo and Albania.
http://www.georgiamonitor.org/upload/Manual_uploads/lugari-3axali3_low.pdf

Less then hundred of personal, twenty of them - foreign, it is not "largest". In Russian "Vector" laboratory are working near 1500 scientists.

And yes, if you are informed guy, pls, answer a question:
----------
There was an Epidemia in Gallia at 580 year, described by Gregory de Tour:

"A very grievous plague followed these prodigies for while the kings were quarreling and again preparing for civil war, dysentery seized upon nearly the whole of the Gauls. The sufferers had a high feverh with vomiting and excessive pain in the kidneys; the head and neck were heavy. Their expectorations were of a saffron color or at least green. It was asserted by many that it was a secret poison. The common people called it internal pimples and this is not incredible, seeing that when cupping glasses were placed on the shoulders or legs mattery places formed and broke and the corrupted blood ran out and many were cured. Moreover herbs that are used to cure poisons were drunk and helped a good many. This sickness began in the month of August and seized upon the little ones and laid them on their beds. We lost dear sweet children whom we nursed on our knees or carried in our arms and nourished with attentive care, feeding them with our own hand. But wiping away our tears we say with the blessed Job: "The Lord has given; the Lord has taken away; the Lord's will has been done. Blessed be his name through the ages."
-------------

 

[Bombardier]

There was an Epidemia in Gallia at 580 year, described by Gregory de Tour:

"A very grievous plague followed these prodigies for while the kings were quarreling and again preparing for civil war, dysentery seized upon nearly the whole of the Gauls. The sufferers had a high feverh with vomiting and excessive pain in the kidneys; the head and neck were heavy. Their expectorations were of a saffron color or at least green. It was asserted by many that it was a secret poison. The common people called it internal pimples and this is not incredible, seeing that when cupping glasses were placed on the shoulders or legs mattery places formed and broke and the corrupted blood ran out and many were cured. Moreover herbs that are used to cure poisons were drunk and helped a good many. This sickness began in the month of August and seized upon the little ones and laid them on their beds. We lost dear sweet children whom we nursed on our knees or carried in our arms and nourished with attentive care, feeding them with our own hand. But wiping away our tears we say with the blessed Job: "The Lord has given; the Lord has taken away; the Lord's will has been done. Blessed be his name through the ages."

Not sure what your point is here?, am I missing something ?

 

[Gordus]

Everybody (who are interested) informed about it. Not everybody knows, that under control of Anna Jvania they have additional work of heroin production from Afgan's popper, delivered by US-planes into Georgia. Prepared heroin usually was delivered in Kosovo and Albania.
http://www.georgiamonitor.org/upload/Manual_uploads/lugari-3axali3_low.pdf

The largest in the region, not continent or world and also the only of its kind as in advanced bio defence.

The Richard Lugar Public Health Center, on which there is actualy zero official and reliable information on such details in regards to military research especialy is one of several subsidiaries and biolabs in Georgia put togheter under the National Center for Disease Control and Public Health. But it is the most acclaimed due to operating BSL-3 labs, and likely the most advanced considering the enormous summs put into it by the US yes. It is also not the only US funded one. There is virtualy zero information about the others but their existence was mentioned several times by Georgian and US authorities. The only other lab that is open to public is the Eliava Institute, because of the phag research and international attention on that topic.

The last part seems very conspiracy. There is a huge drug problem in Georgia but its a transit not production country.

Okay, but what is your question ?

 

[Black Pawn]

Not sure what your point is here?, am I missing something ?

Sorry. Of course, question is "What pathogen could have caused the epidemic in Gallia in 580? "

 

[Black Pawn]

The largest in the region, not continent or world and also the only of its kind as in advanced bio defence.

The Richard Lugar Public Health Center, on which there is actualy zero official and reliable information on such details in regards to military research especialy is one of several subsidiaries and biolabs in Georgia put togheter under the National Center for Disease Control and Public Health. But it is the most acclaimed due to operating BSL-3 labs, and likely the most advanced considering the enormous summs put into it by the US yes. It is also not the only US funded one. There is virtualy zero information about the others but their existence was mentioned several times by Georgian and US authorities. The only other lab that is open to public is the Eliava Institute, because of the phag research and international attention on that topic.

Now, under control of Amiran Gamkrelidze, this center is much more open and transparent, especially for Russian comrades.
https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2017/11...v-tbilisi-priglashaet-ekspertov-na-inspekciyu

Okay, but what is your question ?

Question is simple:
What pathogen could have caused the epidemic in Gallia in 580?

 

[Gordus]

Yes that particular one is also more open and transparent because the Russian government made a huge deal about it when its existence was unvealed because of claims from some Russian expert that biological weapons were being produced there, which is ofcourse nonsense. It is however still not as transparent and open as the Eliava one because its partialy also a military asset.

Hm, I haven't looked into any of that, think it was a sort of cattle epidemic right ? but anyway, the primary purpose of such research labs are to try find cures for diseases and potential epidemic threats. I think the military aspect of it is often overrated because of conspiracy theories. It realy serves mostly prevention and defence.
However, it is an unsettling fact that the ones in Georgia in particular ( I don't know much about the Russian ones ) are bunkering very dangerous viruses for said research and any of those are reportedly capable of causing some significant harm. But theories about weaponising them is rather conspiracy material imo. Something like that would be highly unpredictable and cause regional damage. Nobody wants that I imagine.