Other Post How many reindeer does Finland need? 203,700, say ministry experts

Govt act proved it is not listening by removing the requirement to listen.

Settling indigenous claims are quite normally long duration. Sami have relatively undiminished compelling reason compared to other claimants. In any other jurisdiction mentioned they would succeed. Where else does an indigenous way of life still provide sustainability. Really these stoic herders are very unique and they claim to care more about sustainable diversity.

Ehm, they have killed almost all natural predators from that area. How is that sustainable or in nay way normal to that area? That wasn't the case 200 years ago.

The fact that you have read my comment about large scale reindeer herding and still claim it is indigenous to these areas (indigenous would be hunting and fishing coupled with few reindeer, large scale reindeer herding is a fairly new phenomenon) and your claim that government has removed need to listen, after I pointed out the law which requires them to be listened, I don't think there is really any reason to continue this discussion.

EDIT: Btw, majority of reindeer herders practice it a supplement to forestry and agriculture. Just want to get this out so someone doesn't think they are some sort of nomads living in teepee and moving together with the reindeer herds. Majority of herders are not Sami.
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"they have killed almost all natural predators from that area" Of course they have, are they lacking intelligence?
Domestic livestock predators have always been take out. That's very normal common sense and common practice everywhere unless forced upon by Govt ..
Sami are herders, that is their culture, clearly recognized as such.
Bringing predators back in is obviously another unwanted problem for the Sami and recently farmers of Europe and US to contend with. Their predecessors would have happily kept the predators. But no, because predators tendency to eat livestock if left unchecked in any normal agri business running at low margin is simply perilous to one remaining as the owner of the farm.
The two are incompatible anywhere. Let foxes roam the hen house thinking. Removal of predators is historically normal.

Its like the logging. They didn't do that either and clearly nor do they necessarily want it other was they court case wouldn't exist..
Sami never clear felled for herding.
Comparably landscape altering is reducing diversity. Clear felling is new and more disruptive in a land where it takes over a century to just grow willow a few meters tall.
By ignoring Saami rights in favor of maximum profit, Metsähallitus’ unchecked logging resulted in the disruption of traditional pasture cycles, decimation of the central winter food source of hanging horsetail lichen for grazing reindeer, and according to assessments published by the Finnish Environmental Institute and Red Data Book for Finland, the endangerment of 70 percent of national forest habitat types and the near extinction of countless forest species. The government and the corporation repeatedly denied Saami requests for proper protection and demarcation of their vital forests in northern Lapland, failing to implement the already weak conservation standards of Finland’s Forest Act. Instead, Metsähallitus was merely asked to “collaborate” with reindeer herders—a process that was reportedly limited to informing cooperatives of when and where logging would occur, with no enforced obligation to obtain Free, Prior and Informed Consent before the clear-cutting.

The rest of the article says it all.

The claim because there is a modern chainsaw and Volvo harvester going.. life has changed for the Sami so they can piss off. I actually know that some will think that living in a country that obviously took that path. Albeit with a cross saw, match and horse last century.

Improving their standard of living and fairly new behavior waters down their claims? Perhaps include radios for AM/FM in their homes... is not sufficient to disqualify their claim to the continual habitation and continued culture.
Move in some others, waters it down. No. They are still there being Sami. I assume the concept is new. It took a century here and in aforesaid jurisdictions for it to be understood and addressed, they are still learning.
How about population minority caused by the indigenous nearly literally die out and the influx of immigrants created imbalance. So if there is not many of them around they don't have just claim.
That has zero in relation to continued indigenous claim apparently. If they move off and no longer take resources as they did so in the past their claim is broken.
Sami obviously do not have that problem.

So my thinking is their claim apparently is fee simple owners given precedence of court decisions of such claims, definition of listening is that Sami would have have fee simple legal standing and determine what happens without "negotiation" or by resorting to take the companies and Govt to court...where they apparently have been successful and resorted to publicizing the case vs a German wood company buying the Govt loggers wood to in turn leverage the Govt.

This may sound unfair to hunters and loggers who want to get in there and do their personal thing freely.... Been there and seen that and benefited from colonialism fully.
However they do need to listen to Sami, to clarify in the context of what has passed through court systems. Comparably the Sami are boss according to compelling evidence should be legally more than just demarcation but surveyed and gazetted fee simple... In my view.

At the end of the day to practically clear fell slowest growing trees for timber on the most marginal regeneration land is environmental depleting for a few dollars more. Yet they complained about the Amazon.
"On Friday, Finland, which currently holds the rotating presidency of the European Council, called for the EU to look into the possibility of banning Brazilian beef from its markets due to devastation caused by the wildfires. "
I stand by my earlier statement and will resist the urge to respond to your reply (the way you write feels like someone was grinding my nerve endings with a steel brush) because I would have to spend way too much to do it and we are talking past each other to large extent.

It's a shame that the sources I am using are in Finnish, so they are not of much use to you.
I believe in land ownership. It is better than inevitable quarrels. Eventually someone who thinks they can do it better can buy it.
That is slower than colonial like laws and confiscations of rights that in the long term are always detrimoneous. Speaking from example here that is.

So what is the demarcation line they discuss? Is that feasible. Given their way of life their rotational farming system which as actually the basis of any modern pastoral farming system. Where would they create this line?

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