Debates sobre Malvinas en el foro de Mercopress:
Nuestro amigo Luis conoce y defiende muy bien la causa Malvinas:
Osorno comenta: As a Canadian, I was pretty neutral on the falklands war, until I actually read up more on them. From that point, I encountered many Argentines on the internet claiming that the Falkland islands to the point that it became ridicules. In Canada, there is an island close to us called St. Pierre, technically, Canada can claim sovereignty over these islands, but we don't. Those islands are a French oversea islands, a legacy of New France. Why is it that Canada doesn't feel the need to fight a baseless battles over them, while Argentina, needs to? Were you not humbled?
I also notice that while Islander and Justin Kuntz presented logical, intelligent, well rounded, sensible arguments. All you ever respond is with insults and nationalist pride. You call them both liars, you disregard the people who live on this islands, you ignore their points because they get in the way of your "arguments", which can be summarized by "The british are pirates, margaret thatcher is an imperialist dictator, I hate Keplers, bawwwww" along with a couple of curse words.
I know that the day Argentina becomes a mature, well respected, first world country when they can admit to being wrong, negotiate, and create greater ties with the United Kingdom. Having a better educational system could help.
Luis le responde a Osorno: Osorno, did Canada fought against the british or french to get their independence?. Is Canada a member of commonwealth?. Are you joking with me with that comparison of yours?.
Osorno, from your point of view, if the islands are inhabited by people who born elsewhere but in that place, would you agree with me that they dont belong to that place? thats a crucial question. Becouse i dont know whats your definition of a colony, may be you think a colony is made by slaves or something.
If the falklands census of 2001 clearly shows that from 2913 inhabitants, only 1325 were born in the islands demostrate that they are mostly from britain.
http://www.falklands.info/background/census2001t.html
If 8 members of their government including executive and legislative were born in britain and only two legislative members were born in the islands, do you think its legitimate?. And if your answear is yes who legitimate it? the same people who came from britain?. So its not only its people a foreign people but its government too.
http://www.falklands.gov.fk/assembly/
If people like justin said that the UK has offered on three separate occasions to take the Falklands dispute to the ICJ. And i showed him all cases presented in the icj and even a map showing that falklands were not included from the oficial icj webpage. Do you think thats well rounded and sensible argument?. http://en.mercopress.com/2009/06/18...aggression-towards-the-falklands-says-summers
Look Osorno, Argentina might be undeveloped, third world nation, with any difficulty you might think, it could be the worst nation of the world if you like. But never, never we will give up our rights. You could not underestand it, becouse if your independence were gived to you in a silver plate, how could you compare the island of St. Pierre with malvinas?
Justin R le responde a Luis: Luis, It's good to see some sensible discussion again after all the cut and paste by those "malvinense" trolls. I'm glad to see you back Luis.
Please can you explain where in international law the Falkland Islanders' right to self determination is prescribed in some way by their place of birth?
You say this is a crucial point, where the islanders and their elected representatives are born, but it would be good if you could show how, under international law, their place of birth affects their right to self determination?
Luis le responde a Justin R: Hi Justin R, thanks, well the purpose of my last comment was to expose the colonial situation applied in malvinas, which none of you admited the existence of a colony ever on those islands, like if from 1833 they lived on democracy and freedom all the time.
For the sovereignty dispute, place of birth does not affect the sovereignty dispute, but affect the colonial situation.
Justin according to the un resolution 1514 made on ((((((1960)))))of the DECLARATION ON THE GRANTING OF INDEPENDENCE TO COLONIAL COUNTRIES AND PEOPLES, on point 6 and 7 of the resolution on granting independence, it clearly state that any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the charter of the united nations.
That means that self-determinations of islanders affect the territorial integrity of Argentina, so this resolution does not apply to malvinas inhabitants.
http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/152/88/IMG/NR015288.pdf?OpenElement
In this basic, the general assembly of the UN took this doctrine- of the aplication of the principle of territorial integrity to make reference to the interest of inhabitants of malvinas and not its wishes (as the principle of selfdetermination state) in resolution 2065, made in ((((1965)))), ratified for resolutions 3160, 31/49, 37/9, 38/12, 39/6, 40/21, 41/40, 42/19, and 43/25. Which says:
resolution 2065:
Invites the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem, bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas);
Justin like i said, selfdetermination is not affected by place of birth but of territorial integrity.
Place of birth affect the colonial situation. Why?. Becouse they have 90% of population of british origin, with 8 members of government from 10 that came from britain, with half population born in britain or other commonwealth member.
_____________________________________________________________
Un abrazo
El Eternauta
http://www.malvinense.com.ar/foro/posting.php?mode=editpost&p=8086
Nuestro amigo Luis conoce y defiende muy bien la causa Malvinas:
Osorno comenta: As a Canadian, I was pretty neutral on the falklands war, until I actually read up more on them. From that point, I encountered many Argentines on the internet claiming that the Falkland islands to the point that it became ridicules. In Canada, there is an island close to us called St. Pierre, technically, Canada can claim sovereignty over these islands, but we don't. Those islands are a French oversea islands, a legacy of New France. Why is it that Canada doesn't feel the need to fight a baseless battles over them, while Argentina, needs to? Were you not humbled?
I also notice that while Islander and Justin Kuntz presented logical, intelligent, well rounded, sensible arguments. All you ever respond is with insults and nationalist pride. You call them both liars, you disregard the people who live on this islands, you ignore their points because they get in the way of your "arguments", which can be summarized by "The british are pirates, margaret thatcher is an imperialist dictator, I hate Keplers, bawwwww" along with a couple of curse words.
I know that the day Argentina becomes a mature, well respected, first world country when they can admit to being wrong, negotiate, and create greater ties with the United Kingdom. Having a better educational system could help.
Luis le responde a Osorno: Osorno, did Canada fought against the british or french to get their independence?. Is Canada a member of commonwealth?. Are you joking with me with that comparison of yours?.
Osorno, from your point of view, if the islands are inhabited by people who born elsewhere but in that place, would you agree with me that they dont belong to that place? thats a crucial question. Becouse i dont know whats your definition of a colony, may be you think a colony is made by slaves or something.
If the falklands census of 2001 clearly shows that from 2913 inhabitants, only 1325 were born in the islands demostrate that they are mostly from britain.
http://www.falklands.info/background/census2001t.html
If 8 members of their government including executive and legislative were born in britain and only two legislative members were born in the islands, do you think its legitimate?. And if your answear is yes who legitimate it? the same people who came from britain?. So its not only its people a foreign people but its government too.
http://www.falklands.gov.fk/assembly/
If people like justin said that the UK has offered on three separate occasions to take the Falklands dispute to the ICJ. And i showed him all cases presented in the icj and even a map showing that falklands were not included from the oficial icj webpage. Do you think thats well rounded and sensible argument?. http://en.mercopress.com/2009/06/18...aggression-towards-the-falklands-says-summers
Look Osorno, Argentina might be undeveloped, third world nation, with any difficulty you might think, it could be the worst nation of the world if you like. But never, never we will give up our rights. You could not underestand it, becouse if your independence were gived to you in a silver plate, how could you compare the island of St. Pierre with malvinas?
Justin R le responde a Luis: Luis, It's good to see some sensible discussion again after all the cut and paste by those "malvinense" trolls. I'm glad to see you back Luis.
Please can you explain where in international law the Falkland Islanders' right to self determination is prescribed in some way by their place of birth?
You say this is a crucial point, where the islanders and their elected representatives are born, but it would be good if you could show how, under international law, their place of birth affects their right to self determination?
Luis le responde a Justin R: Hi Justin R, thanks, well the purpose of my last comment was to expose the colonial situation applied in malvinas, which none of you admited the existence of a colony ever on those islands, like if from 1833 they lived on democracy and freedom all the time.
For the sovereignty dispute, place of birth does not affect the sovereignty dispute, but affect the colonial situation.
Justin according to the un resolution 1514 made on ((((((1960)))))of the DECLARATION ON THE GRANTING OF INDEPENDENCE TO COLONIAL COUNTRIES AND PEOPLES, on point 6 and 7 of the resolution on granting independence, it clearly state that any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the charter of the united nations.
That means that self-determinations of islanders affect the territorial integrity of Argentina, so this resolution does not apply to malvinas inhabitants.
http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/152/88/IMG/NR015288.pdf?OpenElement
In this basic, the general assembly of the UN took this doctrine- of the aplication of the principle of territorial integrity to make reference to the interest of inhabitants of malvinas and not its wishes (as the principle of selfdetermination state) in resolution 2065, made in ((((1965)))), ratified for resolutions 3160, 31/49, 37/9, 38/12, 39/6, 40/21, 41/40, 42/19, and 43/25. Which says:
resolution 2065:
Invites the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem, bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas);
Justin like i said, selfdetermination is not affected by place of birth but of territorial integrity.
Place of birth affect the colonial situation. Why?. Becouse they have 90% of population of british origin, with 8 members of government from 10 that came from britain, with half population born in britain or other commonwealth member.
_____________________________________________________________
Un abrazo
El Eternauta
http://www.malvinense.com.ar/foro/posting.php?mode=editpost&p=8086
