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Really interesting video of the Ukrainian Border Guard. At 6:43 you can see a Special Forces soldier using an MP5 supressed.
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- Thread starter olarhat
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Really interesting video of the Ukrainian Border Guard. At 6:43 you can see a Special Forces soldier using an MP5 supressed.
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Wow, really well equipped and trained. I would say better than Special Operations Forces Units of the Ministry of Defense.
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Very unfortunate. Stand easy and rest in peace Fjodr Rubanskiy and Yaroslav Bugaveski. You will be remembered.
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I HIGHLY doubt that ....
But their equipment is quite decent indeed.
Honestly, they are pretty decent right now, but severely hampered by the lack of modern equipment. Russians are only marginally better, and, honestly GRU units deployed to Donbas didn't live up to the fearsome reputation of the Soviet Spetsnaz.
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I don't believe in myths, legends and tales of the Cold War. What I believe in, is what is documented and what I see
What I see, as demonstrated in the videos you posted and other media, they don't lack modern equipment. What I've also seen since 2015 is that they receive training from some of the most reputable units in the world, like SEALS etc.
Sorry, but Ukrainian SOF have not been in better shape and state as they are nowadays. That myth of *Soviet spetsnaz* is what it is.
What you also see btw, and what basicaly summs it all up, is that the Russian Federation armed forces have virtualy adopted much of the US doctrines in that regard, Joint Vision plans and equipment, their Special Operations Command is basicaly an analogue. See how they look and see how they operate. That's an upgrade and see how well it works out for them in Syria.
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I don't believe in myths, legends and tales of the Cold War. What I believe in, is what is documented and what I see
What I see, as demonstrated in the videos you posted and other media, they don't lack modern equipment. What I've also seen since 2015 is that they receive training from some of the most reputable units in the world, like SEALS etc.
Sorry, but Ukrainian SOF have not been in better shape and state as they are nowadays. That myth of *Soviet spetsnaz* is what it is.
What you also see btw, and what basicaly summs it all up, is that the Russian Federation armed forces have virtualy adopted much of the US doctrines in that regard, Joint Vision plans and equipment, their Special Operations Command is basicaly an analogue. See how they look and see how they operate. That's an upgrade and see how well it works out for them in Syria.
I respectfully disagree with your assessment of both, Russian and Ukrainian SOFs. Opposing forces that the Russians faced in Syria have been very weak in military sense. Even Russians themselves called Syian campaign a "paid vacation" in comparison to fighting in Donbas in 2014 and early-2015. And obviously, Russians are nowhere near Western countries in terms of equipment as well.
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Fine, but I frankly don't understand. What is your definition of "modern equipment" then.... ? there is literaly no difference in equipment between the last two videos you've posted.
I am generaly confused about ppls perception that you need to wear fancy looking "opscore" helmets to qualify as proper force .... and it's not that UA SOF is even lacking such toys. You don't qualify as force just because you look cool. It's not a game .... war is not about rule of cool. Airsoft maybe is. But this not airsoft. What matters above all is how well prepared they are and they are prepped pretty well by people who know their S**t.
Not even suggesting that, but they have clearly adopted a lot of the doctrines employed by the US / West with their special operaitons forces. My point is that, they apparently see more use and efficiency in that than how they've been operating largely with very mixed success in the last few decades especialy in the fight with domestic insurgency, separatistm etc.
What I mean by the Russian success in their deployment in Syria is the efficient combination of small unit tactics with precise intel and fire support. The proper use of drones, special equipment and generaly the structural evolution of their special operations forces, only now resembling somewhat "Western" standarts to a certain extent.
Ukraine is replacing its outdated Soviet doctrines with more efficient ones and that's the right way to go.
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Maybe its interesting to note that the Ukrainian Police and Border Guard units want to equip their whole special forces with MP5s until the end of the year. The video may be an indication because that MP5 looks pretty new to me.
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I mostly meant communication, surveillance, command and control gear. Drones are in very short supply for Ukrainians. No standardization between them either. Obviously no satellite support. In terms of airsoft, well, most of the Special Forces soldier would kill to have a setup similar to a milsim player on the budget. I've seen the equipment up close. It looks like wholesale purchases from AliExpress and falls apart in the field. Russians, yes they adopted / copied the West, but I don't think that their force even GRU and whatnot units are capable of fighting dudes with the rags on the heads one day and some sort of modern military the next.
P.S. I always value your opinion, by the way. I'm not offended or anything, I'm just passionate about this subject as you can imagine.
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Does anyone still make MP-5? Can't go into details, but SMGs are badly needed by combat troops and special ops teams who actually do most of the fighting.
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That misconception that milsim players are for some reason better equipped giving me headaches ..... Some are, most are not and its hard to get hands on good quality military surplus gear that is not cheap Chinese copies, and you should also not underestimate your enemy like that. The Russians have far greater fighting experience for the last few decades and frankly not just more, but much better military resources. I'm not saying this to hurt anyone, but dismissing reality is like the worst thing you can do in your situation.
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This is what I hear from Ukrainians, well the Russians have been fighting non-stop for decades. On the other hand, "foreign volunteers", who fought on the Ukrainian side: Israelis, Croats, Scandinavians, and Georgians have all been saying the same thing, the Russians are not that good compared to Western Forces. Without the huge numerical advantage and indiscriminate application of the overwhelming firepower, Russians are worse than the Soviets.
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Perhaps they are not that good as Western Forces, but Western Forces have not been engaged in such a war for ages now. All they commit to nowadays is mostly peacekeeping operations and the only forces engaged in really intense fighting be it in Afghanistan, Iraq, Africa and Syria are special operations forces and as you noted earlier, against comparably very "limited" threat ( unless there are actual clashes between NATO-Rus SOF that they don't make public. Rather unlikely ). Russia is not in all out war with Ukraine but they've probed your capabilities and the international response. It's fatal to mistake it for a valid assessment of their true capabilities and resources and honestly such claims be it from whoever, including Georgians are always biased and personal to certain degree. Don't take any of that granted as realistic assessment.
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Once again, my personal observation is that the best Russian troops right now are their PMCs (although, they are de facto government troops). Their quality varies but not as widely as between regular troops, and of course, if denied heavy weapons support they can't hang for long with regular Ukrainian infantry backed by armor and artillery. But perhaps this is where things are headed right now, almost from sci-fi books wars fought by mercenaries which supplanted traditional military establishment.
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