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Politics The future of European defence | strategy & industry |

it is more than plausible that within a few decades at the latest,
certain NATO members will become majority non-European. As such, it is an open
question whether they will view their place in the world, or their alliance with the
United States, in the same way as those who signed the NATO charter.


Ok. but US will have it the same. non-hispanic whites will become a minority of the total US population around 2045
Yes, but it will still be a western culture
Europe is surrending to Islam
 
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Project "Moscow"

No industry experienced at designing and building even an unguided rocket, so this seems like a limitless money pit of an hallucination.

Of course if we could get some Ukrainian expertise ...
While looking for resources I came across an interview from September 2025 with a former head of military intelligence who said that Dutch industry has been working for years on a domestic cruise missile design with a range of 3,000km.
I'm surprised they didn't join the Anglo-German deep strikes project.
It seems the Netherlands along with the UK and Sweden have joined this program in early 2025.


 
Europe is surrending to Islam
Personally, I think we're rather headed towards a reality like may be found in some American cities and regions, or in South Africa, with self-segregation and violent crime dominating entire subdivisions.

The spectre of actual Islamisation is becoming increasingly undermined by the fact that birth rates are in free fall everywhere, even in the most conservative of Islamic countries.

In 2024, the birth rate in the MENA region (excluding Palestine and Turkey) was 2.33, down from 7 in 1964 and 3.2 in 2014.

Morocco, Kuwait, Tunisia, Iran, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Bahrain and the UAE already have birth rates comparable to the EU average of 1.4 (for comparison, the US birth rate is 1.6). Immigrant community birth rates also converge to native birth rates much more quickly than previously expected. Turks in Germany now have fewer children than native Germans, for example.

In terms of declining fertility, it increasingly looks as if the Islamic world is less than a generation behind the West.
 
Personally, I think we're rather headed towards a reality like may be found in some American cities and regions, or in South Africa, with self-segregation and violent crime dominating entire subdivisions.

The spectre of actual Islamisation is becoming increasingly undermined by the fact that birth rates are in free fall everywhere, even in the most conservative of Islamic countries.

In 2024, the birth rate in the MENA region (excluding Palestine and Turkey) was 2.33, down from 7 in 1964 and 3.2 in 2014.

Morocco, Kuwait, Tunisia, Iran, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Bahrain and the UAE already have birth rates comparable to the EU average of 1.4 (for comparison, the US birth rate is 1.6). Immigrant community birth rates also converge to native birth rates much more quickly than previously expected. Turks in Germany now have fewer children than native Germans, for example.

In terms of declining fertility, it increasingly looks as if the Islamic world is less than a generation behind the West.
But Turks have been living in Germany for decades so you can say they have been "germanised" ,hence less children

What we Need to check is the new wave of immigration, about since 10 years ago
 
The big family immigrants are the kind they wanted to fix the old age issue. The tax base rellies on it.
Catholic Filipinos our prefered immigrant.
 
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What we Need to check is the new wave of immigration, about since 10 years ago
Difficult to gauge; Germany is so anal about privacy protection, we haven't had a proper census in 45 years.

The only numbers I could find concern Syrian refugees who obtained citizenship under the last administration's utterly retarded relaxation of naturalisation requirements. Their birth rates are at a very low 1.1. That's not surprising, given the gross gender imbalance in that group.
 
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In three years South-Korea has delivered 212 155mm self-propelled tracked howitzers to Poland, just one of many customers for the K9. In the same time Ulrich has managed to go through his 20 hour work weeks one mandatory break after another and begin work on handsculpting the chassis of the next PzH2000, delivery date ~2028ish :rolleyes:

South-Korea and Israel produce elaborate systems like air defences, artillery and missile systems so much faster and it's not like they don't have labor regulations or environmental protection laws ...

 
The difference is the Koreans have been churning out equipment almost incessantly for the entire duration of their existence. Western Europe stopped producing armoured fighting vehicles at a large scale in the 1990s. If you only order maybe 20 howitzers a year, why would the manufacturer invest in a streamlined production line tuned to high output rates?

We only have ourselves to blame. Our armament industries will ramp up production the moment it becomes lucrative again.
 
The difference is the Koreans have been churning out equipment almost incessantly for the entire duration of their existence. Western Europe stopped producing armoured fighting vehicles at a large scale in the 1990s. If you only order maybe 20 howitzers a year, why would the manufacturer invest in a streamlined production line tuned to high output rates?

We only have ourselves to blame. Our armament industries will ramp up production the moment it becomes lucrative again.
It already has, and they haven't. They're perfectly content keeping up the pace they were going at because no scaling up means less investment resulting in more profits and guaranteed work for many years to come. And let's face it governments are going to pay whatever price they put on it anyway as they can't afford not to do so.
 
Well its all not that clear and not communicated anymore.

Renk delivered 50 gear sets in 2024 so at least that many are built right now.

Then the PZH is probably not the future anymore the RCH 155 will be the main artillery piece.

And there the numbers look completely different.

Also SK provided 48 howitzers from their inventory not new builts.

In the cold war the industry delivered thousands of tanks in 3 - 5 years.
 
Kind of looks like the Maus front on

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Germans they used to be so prophetic in their designs, now they get copied the next month by China.
 
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Saab apparently decades in the front.
 
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A look at the Patria 6x6
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The speaker of the foreign policy committee of Germany's parliament, Juergen Hardt, has proposed that Germany should ask for nuclear security guarantees from either France or Great Britain. In exchange for such a pledge, Germany would offer financial contributions to their nuclear deterrent. If, however, Berlin were to fail securing commitments robust enough to withstand changes of government in Paris or London, Germany could begin pursuing nuclear weapons of its own. Experts consulted on the proposal estimate that Germany would require at least three years to develop and field nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. Pointing to Russia's aggressive rhetorics and doubts about America's intentions towards Europe, recent polls show that popular support for a German nuke is swiftly rising. (Source)
 

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