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Article Putin's Real Long Game

Discussion in 'All other military discussion' started by saiga, Jan 3, 2017.


  1. saiga

    saiga Content Mod Mi.Net Supporter Content Mod

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    What? I was being sincere and hateful towards that south front video. If I knew them in person, I´d do the same thing that Phoenix did towards another forum member ;)
     
  2. diman Russian Federation

    diman Mi Lieutenant MI.Net Member

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    saiga
    the Chinese company CETC International provided new onboard aircraft radar station with the active phased antenna grid

    http://www.eastpendulum.com/airshow-china-2016-radar-aesa-klj-7a

    Chinese J-20 fighters of new production
    allegedly the size of the first ordered batch makes 40 J-20 fighters which shall be delivered in the next three years. At the same time the cost of the first serial fighters besides allegedly makes around 175-202 million euros apiece. All these digits of course now can't be checked and at me raise doubts, but I give them here in the future to check, they were how truthful
    http://www.eastpendulum.com/quelques-rumeurs-sur-le-j-20

    Summarized data on an involvement of the Air Force of Great Britain in war against Islamists
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmdfence/106/10602.htm
    likely it is enough?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  3. saiga

    saiga Content Mod Mi.Net Supporter Content Mod

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    ...well, as long as Americans and Europe doesn´t put boots down on the ground in Syria, I don´t know what the point is. I don´t think that airstrikes will cut it. This isn´t Iraq.
     
  4. ~Phoenix~ Bangladesh

    ~Phoenix~ Mi Captain MI.Net Member

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    @saiga military jets are turn-ons for me and this is what I love most about military - aerial combat.



    Oh,and by the way,PAK FA didn't start in the '80s.It started in 2000s.The Russian ones which started in the '80s were Su-47 and Mikoyan Project 1.42/1.44 - two beautiful birds which would be over-kill in that time,but after the collapse of the Soviet Union,the programs had to stop due to lack of funding.But the PAK FA traces its roots back to those birds,so in a sense,you can actually say that the PAK FA program began in the '80s.But the real game started only after the 2000s.











    58185d0dc46188fe4b8b456f.jpg
    J-20 is a great bird,but the Chinese engines are yet to be mature enough to be reliable.
    Why did the Chinese buy Su-35s when they had Su-30MK,Su-30MKK,J-11,J-15 and J-16 Flankers?
    They bought it for the 3D Thrust Vectoring Engines which they would reverse engineer and put it in their later J-20s.
    So far,8 prototypes and 4 initial low rate production ones are completed and mass production would kick off soon.

    Actual arament is not known yet,but it can be speculated that :
    The main weapon bay is capable of housing both short and long-range air to air missiles (AAM) (PL-9, PL-12C/D &PL15 - PL-21).
    Two smaller lateral weapon bays behind the air inlets are intended for short-range AAMs (PL-9). These bays allow closure of the bay doors prior to firing the missile, thus enhancing stealth.




    a-j-31-stealth-fighter-performs-at-the-airshow.jpg
    The J-31 Gyr Falcon/ Falcon Hawk may have lost to the J-20 for the PLAAF role,but it still has huge potential for export,and carrier based fighter.Its more like a copy-paste of F-35 with some modifications ( remember the F-35 technology theft? ).Its the most cost economical stealth fighter as well as being a very effective one.
    Pakistan expressed interest in that,as well as Ukarine and Iran.

    Armament -

    • Hardpoints: 6 x external, and internal bay with a capacity of Up to 8,000 kilograms (18,000 lb), including including 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb) internally.
    • Missiles:
      • Air-to-air missiles:
        • 12 x medium-range
      • Air-to-ground missiles:
        • 8 x supersonic
    • Bombs:
      • 8 × 500 kg deep-penetration bombs
      • 30 x smaller bombs





    These two stealth jets with high potentials sparked an arms race in Asia - for a stealth fighter.
    India is going for two stealth aircrafts - one,HAL FGFA ( Hindustan Aeronautics Limited Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft,which is the two seat variant of the PAK FA and another is HAL AMCA ( Hindustan Aeronautics Limited Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft ).
    Japan went for the F-35 and Mitsubishi X-2 "Shinshin".
    South Korea has gone for the stealth F-15 Silent Eagles and is developing KAI TFX fifth generation birds and may consider purchasing PAK FA.
    Pakistan is now setting its sights high up for these Chinese birds.






    19bfn2lub6qofjpg.jpg
    The Shenyang J-15 "Flying Shark" is developed from Su-33 ( the main body structure ) and J-10B ( Nose,Engines,Avoinics,Arament ) for its carrier Liaoning,and the another much larger carrier which is under construction.( Yes,the J-31 would be in that as well as the J-15 )
    Apart from those,China is developing a newer and stronger variant of J-15 "Flying Shark" which has AESA ( Active Electronic Scanned Array ) radar and rivals the F/A-18 in terms of technology,arament and capabilities.Also,they are planning to upgrade existing J-15s to that level.

    Armament

    • 1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
    • Munitions on twelve external hardpoints, including:
    • 8 × PL-12 or R-77, and 4 × PL-9 or R-73 air-to-air missiles
    • Various bombs and rockets
    • Anti ship and anti radiation missiles.
    • Electronic countermeasure (ECM) pods




    73b3d4b493833c00eaaa356e69903d69.jpg
    The Shenyang J-16 is a Long Range Multi-Role Fighter/Bomber,developed from the J-11 BS with much more longer range and advanced avoinics...similar to the F-15E Strike Eagle.
    With 12 pylons,the J-16 is able to carry a full range of indigenous Chinese equipment including super and subsonic anti-ship missiles, air to air missiles, satellite guided bombs, cruise missiles and electronic countermeasure (ECM) jammers.It has been speculated that the J-16's WS-10 engines lack sufficient power for the aircraft, given their design faults and the greater weight of the airframe compared to other Chinese Su-27 variants, and that an engine upgrade will be needed to allow the new plane to meet its design potential which gives us another reason why China wants Russian Su-35's thrust vectoring engines.There are two variants - the standard variant and the J-16D, the electronic warfare variant. It has wingtip pods resembling the AN/ALQ-218, up to ten fuselage and wing hardpoints, and no IRST or 30 mm cannon. It reportedly made its first flight in December 2015.

    Armament

    • 1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
    • Munitions on twelve external hardpoints, including:
    • 8 × PL-12, and 4 × PL-9 air-to-air missiles
    • Various bombs and rockets including BeiDou satellite-guided bombs and laser-guided bombs
    • Anti-ship and anti-radiation missiles
    • Electronic countermeasure (ECM) pods
    I used info from wikipedia and other sites such as IHS Jane's 360.
    There are other programs such as J-10C ( equivalent to Saab JAS-39 Gripen or Eurofighter Typhoon )
    and FC-01 block 3 ( equivalent to F-16 ) but I'm too tired to type all the stuff.


    Kira.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  5. diman Russian Federation

    diman Mi Lieutenant MI.Net Member

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    Want More F-22s? Here’s What That Would Take
    http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/04/want-more-f-22s-heres-what-would-take/127729/

    Chief of staff retires, leaving an Air Force in transition
    https://www.airforcetimes.com/articles/chief-of-staff-retires-leaving-an-air-force-in-transition


    The budgetary control of the Congress (CBO) published the most interesting material - "The manual for beginners: structure of Armed forces of the USA". Yes, I don't joke.
    https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/51535-fsprimer.pdf
    For example, in it there is information on quantity of the fundamental structural units of VS of the USA, from crews of Army to squadrons of the Air Force. And also data on operation cost, number of the servicemen. For example, direct costs on operation of an army crew and the aircraft carrier (without wing) are approximately comparable.

    Still an interesting example - staff number (fighting composition, auxiliary and administrative) and expenditures on operation are squadron F-35 more, than on F-22 (2940 and 2390 people, $570 and $470 million, respectively). The number of letadl in squadrons is identical - 12 pieces. And the cost of operation of a squadron of B-2 by 11 times (!!!) higher than operation cost

    The fact that operation of a squadron of F-35 is more expensive, than F-22 squadron, and a staff in a squadron of F-35 is 550 people more, than in a squadron of F-22 is success! What after all Robert Gates is Putin's agent that stopped mass production of F-22 on the 187th to the machine in favor of the F-35 program.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
  6. saiga

    saiga Content Mod Mi.Net Supporter Content Mod

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    So...basically...what now? Because I see no questions answered only a load of Jane's and I've got those at home.

    The plans for a stealth attacker/fighter aircraft were on the table in the 80s. You can interprete that as you wish.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  7. saiga

    saiga Content Mod Mi.Net Supporter Content Mod

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    Ahhh. Would you be so kind to squeeze all that into five sentences max? Your POV or whatever, otherwise I really don't see the point.
     
  8. diman Russian Federation

    diman Mi Lieutenant MI.Net Member

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    Wikipedia isn't pleasant to you, detailed articles aren't pleasant to you, won't please you
    if you see no sense, so my work was in vain
     
  9. saiga

    saiga Content Mod Mi.Net Supporter Content Mod

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    Jesus, I´ve been editing this for half an hour.

    You don´t get it, do you? Actually, you know what? I don´t care: when I´ll see all those "in development" aircraft in action, I return back to this post. Even if it´s 2020 in the meantime. This is a waste of time.

    Edit: You want an actual comparison? Compare Mirage III and mig 21, if you´re lonely or you have nothing better to do. Both birds battle-proven, they even stood against each other in combat... or A4 Skyhawk or F4 phantom and mig 21 or Mig 17 or Mig 19... plenty of low intensity conflicts out there, plenty of possibilities.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  10. saiga

    saiga Content Mod Mi.Net Supporter Content Mod

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    ...I bet none of you have read that article in the first place, by the way ;)

    You´ve reminded me of an argument I´ve witnessed between a teenager and a retired F16 pilot during an airshow. While the young man argued that an F16 wouldn´t stand a chance against a mig 29, the combat vet reminded him that this is utter nonsense because these two birds never stood against each other in combat. This was before Kosovo... and how did that turn out?
     
  11. saiga

    saiga Content Mod Mi.Net Supporter Content Mod

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    But yeah, go ahead, copy and paste the entire wikipedia and present it like a cure for cancer. I´d expect that from a "wings over..." player, not from someone who reads and learns a lot about military history. I´m surprised none of you dug out some real life example from Vietnam or Arab -Israeli Wars or Iraq-Iranian war or Kosovo or whatever, so many great Soviet/RF planes in action. No. You´re gonna build your case on technical specification of an experimental plane. I can´t believe I´ve tried to reason. Again. And what I get is spam and zero understanding ability.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    BravoZulu likes this.

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