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Joachim Peiper

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Polar Registered: February 2004 Location: Poland Posts: 2,569	He was responsible for murder 308 american soldier and 111 civilian when he was figting in battle of bulge.
	· Date: Tue 2 3, 2004 · Views: 20653 · Filesize: 21.5kb · Dimensions: 300 x 423 ·
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	Keywords: Joachim Peiper

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Bombardier

Admin and Arbiter

Registered: January 2002
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 7,628

Tue 2 3, 2004 16:31

Rating: 10.00

The shooting of American prisoners of war on 17 December 1944 by German SS troops became one of the most notorious atrocities of World War II. Under the command of SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer (Lieutenant Colonel) Joachim Peiper, German soldiers surprised and captured an American motor convoy belonging to Battery B of the 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion at a road intersection south of the Belgian town of Malmedy. In what became known as the Malmedy Massacre, more than 100 prisoners were assembled in a field adjacent to the crossroads and mowed down by machine gun fire; approximately 30 survived. As a result of the massacre and ensuing international press coverage, Peiper became for many Americans the most hated man in the German armed forces. He and 73 of his comrades were tried by a U.S. Army court in 1946 for the Malmedy murders and other related war crimes. All were found guilty and 43, including Peiper, were sentenced to death. But none of the death sentences were carried out, the result in large part of the continuing efforts of Colonel Willis Everett Jr., an American lawyer from Georgia who was assigned to defend the accused war criminals

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Xtreme

Corporal

Registered: February 2004
Location: England
Posts: 36

Tue 2 3, 2004 16:38

Rating: 6.00

Peiper recalled the war as "a proud and heroic time! Where we were standing was Germany and as far as my tank gun reached was my kingdom! ... Our vision always has been the `Dream of Reich!'"

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Clank Clank Im a Tank

vick
Recruit

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 2

Tue 18 5, 2004 21:30

Rating: 9.00

although the REAL truth will never be revealed, that's one side of the story. the guy was good soldier with amazing career ... read how piper's people were tortured by allied troops ...

Bombardier

Admin and Arbiter

Registered: January 2002
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 7,628

Wed 19 5, 2004 02:31

I dont think that his capabilities as a soldier have ever been questioned here?, it is clear that as a soldier he was one of Germanys best. The point here is that he was found guilty of war crimes by a war crime tribunal.I would be interested to read about the torture of his people (presume you mean his soldiers?)Like you say there is always another side to every story.

Welcome to our site vick

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big guy
Recruit

Registered: December 2004
Posts: 8

Sun 3 7, 2005 18:11

I`ve read several books concerning Peiper. The one`s that stand out the most are "Devil`s Adjutant" & also "Peiper".

They both show how as a Soldier a Great Leader he was & also daring too (His many rescue tasks to save Wermacht troops in Russia" & also how easy Mis-use of the Truth is,case in point,Russia his unit used Flame throwers to heat up there Armour`s tanks to help them start,this was quickly twisted into BLOWTORCH Battalion.who used this method against Russian soldiers & civilians as well as dwellings of these people.

Also the Bulge "massacre" was reported by Peiper (who took responsibility as he was CO though No orders & no-way near the incident) & others that US Art fell around where the US POWs were being kept under guard by a panzer/stug with a Teenage guard overwatching them. As the shells fell closer the US troops moved the Teen panicked,shouted & unfortunatley opened fire into the men,which had the effect of the rest of the crew opening up also.

Not saying this IS the truth,though this is reported via the "other side". Also both of the books do recall the US/British mis treatment of them in there "information gathering". Using freom Sleep deprivation,to threating the soldiers family (handing them over to the Russians).Also the use of beatings is reported & as for the trial,well that was a SHOWCASE,something similar would have occured if Rommel had indeed challenged Hitler in a Court of Law,concerning his Traitor charges. That too if had happened would have already been a CONCLUDED trial.

Not looking to start any aggressive posts,just another side if you will (some will take note,agree & some will Disagree).

Bombardier

Admin and Arbiter

Registered: January 2002
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 7,628

Sun 3 7, 2005 18:16

Your comments and point of view are welcome here buddy. I can guarantee you that nobody will take offence, its not what we are about.

Thanks for your input.

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Bombardier

Admin and Arbiter

Registered: January 2002
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 7,628

Sun 1 1, 2006 03:31

Found this interesting
Malmedy Massacre trial

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Kälbermarsch
Recruit

Registered: September 2007
Location: Southern Finland
Posts: 4

Mon 24 9, 2007 14:34

Rating: 8.00

Good pic of Peiper, which I don't remember seeing.

As reply to vick's and big guy's comment:

It's highly doubtful that Peiper's people were tortured by the Allied troops at least systematically. Read the report of Senate's subcommittee, which investigated the Dachau trials. You'll find it here:

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_L...stigation.html

Most of claims of abuse made by Peiper's men were denied by other Peiper's men and abuse itself wasn't even close to the harshness originally claimed. When interviewed by the subcommittee, SS-men often started to change their affidavits until there was very little which resembled their original claim. Many forms of this "abuse" were in fact used and accepted by the US legal and penal system in the United States.

In addition, Peiper said "I recognize that after the battle of Normandy my unit was composed mainly of young, fanatical soldiers. A good deal of them had lost their parents, their sisters and brothers during the bombing. They had seen for themselves in Köln thousands of mangled corpses after a terror raid had passed. Their hatred for the enemy was such, I swear it, I could not always keep it under control." Peiper also recognized orders of killing POWs given by Hitler and army commander Sepp Dietrich.

Peiper's Eastern Front battalion was nicknamed "Blow Torch Battalion". It was named so, because the unit burned few Russian villages while killing their civilian populace. Many apologists and revisionists resort to Peiper's claim, that it was because they used blow torch to warm engines and tracks of their AFV's during the cold Russian winter. Well, why the name was used can't be told for sure - the name doesn't change the fact Peiper's unit burned villages and killed civilians in Russia.

Ok, forget Malmedy and Russia, there's still the Boves massacre in Italy. It's very similar to murder ordered by Dinkmann Oradour-sur-Glane in France. Men, women and children being killed by Peiper's men while houses burn because of Italian partisan activity in the area.

And even after these, Peiper served as Himmler's adjutant in 1938. So you can be sure he knew all about the Nazi terror, holocaust, concentration camps etc.

So, in my opinion - a villain. A resourceful and excellent panzer leader, good combat commander, in service of and loyal to his men, honorable opponent on some occasions, yes, but still a Nazi villain.

Bombardier

Admin and Arbiter

Registered: January 2002
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 7,628

Tue 25 9, 2007 06:59

Kälbermarsch that was a very balanced and intellectual post

thanks mate

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Reloader

Colonel

Registered: April 2005
Location: Inverclyde, Scotland
Posts: 1,528

Tue 25 9, 2007 16:09

I think Kälbermarsch summed him up well - a villain.

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"Every man thinks less of himself for not having been a soldier, or not having been to sea."
Samuel Johnson, 1776

PanzerBob

Registered: January 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,234

Tue 25 9, 2007 16:56

A villain to be sure, and thankfully one who did not end up in charge of Germany. I believe it's his leadership abilities etc which lead some down the wrong path with this Nazi, they forget a lot of brillant Germans were sucked into the Nazi vortex.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Whenever in future wars the battle is fought, panzer troops will play the decisive role..."
Heinz Guderian, General der Panzertruppe, "Achtung! Panzer!"

wildbill
Recruit

Registered: April 2008
Posts: 1

Sat 26 4, 2008 21:54

Rating: 8.00

Nice photo, I don't recall seeing this one either. As a military officer and combat veteran I can certainly understand unfortunate events due to lack of sleep, stress, anger and fear. Do I think Jochen Peiper was a Saint, hardly but I think villain is unfair. I used to hear all the fairy tales of Malmedy when I was a kid however, after reading the book Jochen Peiper by Charles Whiting I have a different perspective of Peiper. Does anyone here know that the "massacre" wasn't at Malmedy it was actually at the Baugnez Crossroads, I didn't know either until I read the book.

PanzerBob

Registered: January 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,234

Sun 27 4, 2008 20:41

Rating: 10.00

I would agree WildBill for the most part on how you are viewing this soldier and certainly understand the situation and the stresses of combat. However I think villian still fits at least in those times. Notice I've not called him a monster or taken away from him the fact he was a soldier. In their boots, what would we have done? If we can't ask that question of ourselves then we have no right to judge IMHO. This man was a real leader and as I mentioned we can be thankful he and others never had supreme power.

The Malmedy "Massarce" was IMO more designed to motivate Allied Troops and the Crossroads name doesn't roll off the tongue well.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Whenever in future wars the battle is fought, panzer troops will play the decisive role..."
Heinz Guderian, General der Panzertruppe, "Achtung! Panzer!"

Kälbermarsch
Recruit

Registered: September 2007
Location: Southern Finland
Posts: 4

Thu 17 7, 2008 21:18

Hi again. I agree that lack of sleep, stress, anger and fear can make people do their worst. Peiper's men were also vengeful and many of them were used to killing people during the war, especially in the Eastern Front.

Charles Whiting wrote a highly adventurous fictional book serie of an armored SS unit "Wotan" using the writer's name Leo Kessler. He wrote in an admiring tone, so we can at least suppose he certainly wasn't one of those liberals trying to give a bad name to the SS.

Perhaps because name of the SS was so dirty after the war there have been many attempts to whitewash the organisation afterwards by SS-men who did not take part to war crimes - at least any more than other soldiers did. Perhaps because the cold war followed the WWII. Many former SS-men, who were not prosecuted, rose to have political and economical power and were then needed against another evil empire by the west. Many of them were just a soldiers during the war, but a big part of them did take part in atrocities and war crimes. Crimes, however, belong to the war. There always will be soldiers committing crimes if there's a war. I generally think, that leaders who start wars light-heartedly should be punished along with their subordinates.

But back to the Baugnez and Malmedy:

Baugnez crossroads is about 4 kilometres, that's 2 and ½ miles from Malmedy's town center. So, I suppose why they called it Malmedy massacre is just because Baugnez crossroads is in Malmedy - so no need to mock the capable tongues of the fine Allied soldiers.

Malmedy, I'm afraid wasn't just a single unfortunate accident Peiper's men had during the offensive. According to the US Senate subcommittees careful estimation Peiper's troops executed over 250 American POWs and 110 civilians in 11 different towns and villages in addition to at least 86 American POWs Baugnez/Malmedy. Belgians named few hundred more civilians who were killed by the Kampfgruppe Peiper. After Peiper's unit was defeated, it retreated and was refitted. After few weeks, when it made it back to the frontlines, there were more executions of American POWs and civilians.

As said, forget Malmedy, there was Kharkov, Boves, Yefremovka (sp?). The units commanded by this Himmler's former adjutant left piles of bodies of civilians and executed POWs behind, where ever they went.