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[28th61st]

I suffered from this for many years [1969-about 2004] after serving in Northern Ireland with the army and with the R U C. caused by foot patrols not knowing who is waiting around the corner or walking behind you, seeing my mates being shot, two killed yards from me on seperate occasions and as a medic picking up the what is left after a bomb has done its worse. Also have a petrol bomb left outside my house after I returned home from nightshift with the RUC In my days it was not recognised and no treatment/help, was given. I had my ups and downs one failed marriage through my moods. For the last few years I have had no flashbacks. The only time is affects me now is when I hear of some policeman, solder killed in Northern Ireland, I get a very bad headache for some reason. Well it all in the past. and I would do it all again.

[Bombardier]

it was not recognised and no treatment/help

Your plight is definately recognised here mate.
Thanks for posting about your experiences with this terrible condition.

[03Fox2/1]

"Well it is all in the past and I would do it again", someone said.
I agree with 1/2 of this statement. I would do it all again, despite what I know now.
Yes, it is in the past but it is not past tense for me.
One of the symptoms of this particular curse, with me anyway, is that it seems more with me in the present, than in the far off distant past. It sleeps but never leaves.
It is true that many of the initial events and traumatic exposures to gruesome and bloody loss of life or limb happened to me in VietNam, many years ago. And it is true that at such a young age, I enlisted at 18 and arrived in Nam one month after 19th birthday, and with so little exposure outside the warmth and safety of my small world in middle class America, circa 1967, I knew not what the real cruel world had to offer. Especially in a war fought up close and personal, both conventional and guerrilla style. I was totally unprepared for my immersion in modern warfare in a distant foreign land. Unfortunately more stress was added later by my own personal decisions that turned out to be flawed, relationships that failed and the total lack of trust or dependence on others.
Not to mention the mood swings and sudden onset of anger and the desire to be anywhere but where I was.
Changing jobs frequently because either I wasn't challenged or I felt I didn't belong. Not identifying with my peers in the civilian world and feeling much older inside than my actual age belied.
Staying invisible became second nature. Watching and observing others from a safe distance, without drawing attention to yourself. Not exactly good social skills and definitely not a foundation for successful relationships.
I became a professional firefighter for many reasons but the main reason, that no one else knew, was because it returned me to an environment that I missed. The uniforms and rank structure and discipline. The countless rules and regulations and the many certifications and constant training required. The high physical standards and demands, both mental and emotional on yourself and the ability to rise in rank and responsibility if you were motivated and focused enough. And then there was the danger factor and the unknown incident confronting you and the ability to provide for the public a service that was critical to saving a life or property. All of this and the fact that I was doing something positive for others, all the while helping myself heal inside... that's why I became a Firefighter. To save myself from myself... if that makes sense to you.
I'll add more later, probably.
Semper Fi

[PanzerBob]

Some of this comment may also address your other posts,03Fox2/1 . First let me say it seems you have found ways to deal with your demons, whether it involves outside help or not, I found recognizing your dilemma was the biggest step to take. I agree our military culture provides an environment which basically says Suck it up, Soldier, and you may find this surprising but I'm fairly sure that this will and should never change, otherwise men wouldn't function in the deadly jobs given to them. It is after the fact for the most part the demons arise. It is at this stage where soldiers may need help if they want it.

I see parallels in your being attracted to other mission orientated jobs to help you cope. I did the same while in the military and now as I'm retired from it. There is something to this to be sure, as others I know have expressed the same feelings about being able to stay within a structured environment. I was fortunate when I left the military I was able to find this in my present work. You mentioned that group therapy didn't work for you and this from what I have seen is not uncommon. The soldiers I've seen try it and bow out of it were not being helped, as a matter of fact seemed more tortured by it.

Treatment whether professionally run or the type which comes from within seems to me very much personal in nature. As I've mentioned before there is no set way back, and I would suggest from my own experience and what I've seen of others, it appears to be more of a matter learning to live with your demons. I don't believe now mine will ever go away, but I'm dealing with them, HOPEFULLY the lid doesn't come off again.

Bob out

[03Fox2/1]

Bob,
Once again I benefit from your wisdom. I agree that for some of us, self-treatment is better than professional help. I also agree that the trouble usually appears long after the fact. A crisis is usually handled with flair and efficiency, circumstances permitting those of us that handle the problems of others seem like we are in total control of the situation. But sometimes this can be a catalysis for our own troubles to rear their ugly head. It's not helping others that I lack, it's helping myself that falls short of a cure. Like you say, make peace and learn to live with them or at least, respect their power.
Semper Fi
Scott

[Hollis]

Self help is a plus and minus. Part of the reason PTSD shows up later is because the trauma was not dealt with at the time. That is what causes PTSD. Part of our self survival skills is to bury the memory of a traumatic event until later when we can deal with it. Problem is, we don't usually deal with it. One of the reason it effected a lot of RVN Vets, was because of DEROS, our rotation schedule. In past wars, Men went over in a unit and generally cam home as a unit. Those soldier where able to talk to each other about past traumatic events which help them from getting PTSD. In the RVN war, men would go over mostly by themselves and then come home by themselves. The generally had no one to talk to about specific events.

Once at home, they were people who where total clueless or hostile to the war. Many vets would become mute about the subject and buried those traumatic events deeper in the mind. One can think of those events, like a jar of tomato sauce going bad. With the lid on tight the contents inside the jar slowly builds pressure.

The best way to deal with PTSD is to deal the effects of the traumatic event as close to the event as possible, waiting and burying it, just adds to the problem later. Once it has been patterned in the mind, PTSD will not go away, only dealt with. The vet then needs to learn how to deal with the effects of PTSD which they will have for the rest of their lives.

The other factor, is the uniqueness each one of us have and our surroundings. That can mitigate the how sever or less sever the PTSD becomes.


One downside of self help, is self medication, generally in terms of booze and other drugs to escape in.

Self help, I think is very important. Having a guide (councilor) to help a person in this area, IMHO, is also very very helpful.

My other thoughts are;

1) most information about PTSD, from the media, hollyweird, etc is wrong.

2) There is a lot of good information out there, the trick is finding it.

[PanzerBob]

Well relayed in both cases. The mention of self medicating, it is large problem, one I saw much of in others and was fortunate to see in myself as I realised it was unleashing the beasts and the pain, not numbing it. It took one specific night when my wife and I were out with friends, supposed to be a night out with dinner maybe some dancing. Someone started in on my deployment and within minutes I had transformed into raging lunatic in the middle of a quiet steakhouse. I did not recall it but the wife did and once she told me what I done and said. I quit drinking then and there it scared me to be so out of control. Within months of that and an escalation symptoms I finally realised I was not dealing with problem anymore it was running me.

Bob out

[ArcticWolf]

Originally Posted by 03Fox2/1

for my immersion in modern warfare in a distant foreign land. Unfortunately more stress was added later by my own personal decisions that turned out to be flawed, relationships that failed and the total lack of trust or dependence on others.
Not to mention the mood swings and sudden onset of anger and the desire to be anywhere but where I was.
Changing jobs frequently because either I wasn't challenged or I felt I didn't belong. Not identifying with my peers in the civilian world and feeling much older inside than my actual age belied.
Staying invisible became second nature. Watching and observing others from a safe distance, without drawing attention to yourself. Not exactly good social skills and definitely not a foundation for successful relationships.

As always Fox, you strike a cord in me. I've not been feeling all too well the past couple of days... I've put myself into stressful situations by moving from Scotland to France. I'm living with 3 students, at least 10 years my junior, and I've nothing in common with them. I don't feel like I fit in and I've been told I'm a 'solitary' person. They feel uncomfortable around me because I don't talk about myself as much as they expect me to of think that I should... I keep thinking 'why do I keep running away from myself and what does it actually do to help me? I'm still on anti-depressants, but going below 30mg is impossible, all the usual crap re-appears and I get the feeling I will never be rid of nightmares and the feeling I can never be safe around people... so I take my medication, and I pretend everything's kind of ok. I don't know how to change myself. How can I be a more sociable person if I can't trust others? I spent so many years of my life pretending that everything was just fine, no matter what was going on inside my head. I quit doing that. And now I'm being told that being 'real' is not ok either. It makes me want to scream, but instead I keep it all in, so they don't think I'm crazy. ha, just realised they may think that anyway... I wish I could just crawl into a hole and never have to get out again. I hate myself.

[03Fox2/1]

A.W.,
Hating yourself is not an option.
There are far too many forces beyond our control and many of these forces cause us undo worry and undeserved ridicule of ourselves.
Our lack of self-esteem is something that only WE can overcome because it comes from within, it is our own perception of the world and ourselves.
Therefore, just like you can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink, "professionals" can lead us to that place where we can see ourselves more clearly but they can't force us to open our eyes and look. It is up to you to take the next step.
No one is perfect and all of us have imperfections that are invisible to others but not to ourselves. Look inward but don't forget what you see is only part of who you are.
Each of us is our own best friend and our own worst enemy.
We must be forever vigilant about which one we listen to more.
You know, as I do, it is sometimes easier to self-destruct than not.
Remember that hating yourself can lead to self-destruction, so don't do it.
You are a survivor and as such you have an obligation to yourself and those in this world that you influence, with or without your knowledge, to continue down that healing path and however long it takes, not to loose focus on the ultimate prize.
To me that prize is peace and inward harmony, with yourself and ultimately the world.
I am far from achieving this but once I understood and identified my goal, it became easier to ignore those forces that constantly try to hold me back.
My demons have an explanation and I can deal with how I acquired them and I have come to grips with the fact that I will always have them, therefore they are a part of me. It is who I am. Instead of trying to rid myself of something that can't be taken away, I learn to understand them and live with them because any other answer fails to address the real problem. Our experiences collectively help define who we are but ultimately, it is up to each of us to choose which ones we pay attention to.
Best regards, Scott

[Hollis]

Well said, Scott.

SF

Hollis