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[Bombardier]

Please feel free to add your comments, the informational threads above are locked and will remain at the top of the Forums. Bombardier


This is the searingly honest story of a brave man who served his country in war and on the streets - and the appalling price he paid.
Simon Bywater fulfilled his ambition to become a Royal Marine Commando by surviving a gruelling training, where mind and body were tested to the extremes. He learned jungle warfare with the aid of head-hunters in Brunei, saw a friend's leg sliced off by a propeller, and saved his colleagues from tragedy by spotting that live ammunition had been substituted for blanks during an exercise. But then came the Gulf War and even more horrific experiences in Northern Iraq, such as a truck load of Kurdish guerrillas spilling its occupants one by one as it careered down a mountainside, and children bartering live mines for food.

Unknowingly suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome, he joined the Greater Manchester Police, serving in crime-ridden estates where the culture of violence only added to his trauma. Even a move to the more tranquil Cambridgeshire Police failed to halt his breakdown.

Simon Bywaters courage in telling all aspects of his story will undoubtedly help many others now suffering in silence and ignorance.


To learn more about forced out go to the Forced out website (http://www.forcedout.co.uk/HOME.HTM)

Simon Bywater is a member of our site and goes by the name of booty. You can see some of the pictures that Simon has uploaded HERE (http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=31)

[HighlandSniper58]

I have no personal experience of this condition, although I have been subject to stress-related illness whilst working for HMG, albeit not prost-traumatic.

I think this is a most valid and useful section to set up, and hope it may be of considerable use to others.

[Frisco-Kid]

Andy, thanks for posting this. Well informed is well armed.

As I've stated in another post on the VIETNAM Forum, I've experienced several of these symtoms. I've taken an anti-depressant drug daily for several years. Works well for me.

As stated, you don't have to be a combat vet to suffer from PTSD. If you are experiencing any one, or several, of the symptoms described SEEK HELP. Don't try to just "Suck It Up" alone. At the very least, talk to someone; spouse, priest/minister, best friend, whoever. I know first hand that just this makes things better.

STAY HEALTHY, BOYS AND GIRLS.

[Doc 2/47]

Might be well to remember that-at least when I came off active duty in '71-the official government position was that there was no such disorder and it was strongly infered that folks who suffered such symptoms must be a bunch of whimps and/or sissies."Suck it up" was about the only choice avaliable.Turns out that it wasn't such a good one.

[Bombardier]

During WW1 soldiers who we now know were suffering with PTSD or Shell shock as it was called then, were taken away and shot because they deserted their posts or just would not/could not fight. We have come a long way since then . :(

[Doc 2/47]

Bombardier-

Would not consider myself an expert on the subject;I'm not really sure that anyone is.I have,however,been diagnosed with PTSD and am under treatment for same.Have also functioned as a nurse on psychiatric units where PTSD patients were evaluated and treated.I have never yet heard of anyone deserting their post due to PTSD.The condition may cause continued release of epinephrine(adrenaline) past the time when it is useful or at inappropriate times and this could lead to general physical collasp which could render the person unable to fight but-as far as I'm able to determine-this is rare.

It appears that PTSD rarely renders a person unable to function in a combat envionment.The problems come when that same person attempts to function in civilian society.

[Bombardier]

I have had a think about my previous post and it was a little hasty, I believe that PTSD and shell shock are completely different things. Sorry for my ignorance.

Thanks for putting me straight buddy :) :

[Doc 2/47]

Sorry,I wasn't very clear."Shell shock" was used to refer to a very broad range of behaviors includeing symptoms of PTSD.But some behaviors often lumped under "shell shock" are unrelated to this condition.In general it seems that it is rarely-if ever-dificult to get a person with PTSD fight or to remain at their post.If anything, they are TOO ready to fight and may be at risk of fireing before properly identifing the target,coming awake fighting,etc.

[Bombardier]

Thanks doc :)

I found this article today.

By 1914 British doctors working in military hospitals noticed patients suffering from "shell shock". Early symptoms included tiredness, irritability, giddiness, lack of concentration and headaches. Eventually the men suffered mental breakdowns making it impossible for them to remain in the front-line. Some came to the conclusion that the soldiers condition was caused by the enemy's heavy artillery. These doctors argued that a bursting shell creates a vacuum, and when the air rushes into this vacuum it disturbs the cerebro-spinal fluid and this can upset the working of the brain.

Some doctors argued that the only cure for shell-shock was a complete rest away from the fighting. If you were an officer you were likely to be sent back home to recuperate. However, the army was less sympathetic to ordinary soldiers with shell-shock. Some senior officers took the view that these men were cowards who were trying to get out of fighting.

Between 1914 and 1918 the British Army identified 80,000 men (2% of those who saw active service) as suffering from shell-shock. A much larger number of soldiers with these symptoms were classified as 'malingerers' and sent back to the front-line. In some cases men committed suicide. Others broke down under the pressure and refused to obey the orders of their officers. Some responded to the pressures of shell-shock by deserting. Sometimes soldiers who disobeyed orders got shot on the spot. In some cases, soldiers were court-martialled.

Official figures said that 304 British soldiers were court-martialled and executed. A common punishment for disobeying orders was Field Punishment Number One. This involved the offender being attached to a fixed object for up to two hours a day and for a period up to three months. These men were often put in a place within range of enemy shell-fire
As I said "we have come along way since those days"

[Zofo]

If no post was available, "the offender" was attached to a waggon or cart wheel. I actually saw a small film clip of this years ago from a WW1 documentary - grim and inhumane!

[Bombardier]

I agree, totally inhumane :shock:

[Bigbird]

I know a guy who has PTSD, he was never in the army or the forces, he was a cop, its a terrible thing to suffer. He has changed very much.He has developed a bad temper and loss of concentration. He does not sleep very well either, amongst a number of other symptoms.

Field Punishment number one :shock: did we really do that to those poor brave men?. Its Barbaric!

[Bombardier]

Field Punishment number one did we really do that to those poor brave men?. Its Barbaric!

Yes they did and I agree very barbaric. :(

Interesting point about your friend, it just emphasises the point that PTSD is not limited to the Military.

Thanks Bbird

[tam]

As someone who has first hand experience of PTSD and who is still in it's clutches although to a lesser extent now I have to say that it can and does strike when you are at your most vunerable. It must be dealt with at the earliest time possible as wallowing in the horrors that are PTSD only makes it harder to deal with.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Andy for including this vital Forum on the site and would advise anyone who thinks they are suffering to go and get help. It does not make you a lesser person for doing so, I know. I will also be only too pleased to guide anyone towards the procedure to get help.
Tam.

[Bombardier]

Thanks Tam, I agree with you whole heartedly, this is a most important subject and if anybody thinks they may be suffering, dont do it in silence get some help.
Thanks for that Tam your a good man.:)

[PeteH]

During WW1 soldiers who we now know were suffering with PTSD or Shell shock as it was called then, were taken away and shot because they deserted their posts or just would not/could not fight. We have come a long way since then . :(


Was going to make the exact same comment Bomb......the poor bA****ds...sorry but some today dont know there born........you took your shilling,you take your chances,harsh i know but true,

[Bombardier]

Quite right pete, thanks :)

[106rr]

I would like to thank eveeryone for this learning experience. I was diagnosed in 1988 with PTSD. They said that it was not compensable. I spent two years in a "combat vet discussion group". At the end of the two years the group was dissolved with no goal in sight.
I am currently diagnosed and have bene told that it is compensable. I am being treated for several allied illnesses and injuries from war. I have yet to get my C&P hearing from the VA. After years of telling me that my records were lost the VA has admitted that they exist and I have been given a set of my medical records.

[Hollis]

106. You have to keep going for it. It really helps to have a good representative. I guess because of frauds out there, the VA makes claims very difficult. Mayeb that is good. The negative is the long wait, the frustrations, etc.


My longest appeals was over 6 years. I once gave up on the process in 1979. The VA board was just plain hostile.

In '86, there were outreach clinics that wre not connected to the VA to reach out to the RVN vets who were so turned offed by the VA in the 70's. I talked with a case worker there, it was better than the 70's but a waste of time.

After my son was born, I guess the though of being a father and being around another 18 plus years I should probably do something. By then the Vet Center was runned by the VA. My caseworker was a Marine who was in Korea, which made a impact on me, I was pretty hostile to the VA BS and told him so. It took a number of years. The first claim was denied, which I guess is normal SOP for the VA. After that everyone gets serious and they dig deaper for real information. The VA seems to have always been short on people and it has not gotten better, so it takes time.

The important aspect is to file your claim sooner, the better. If there is a compensation it goes back to the date of the first claim. If you wait, like I did, you loose out, but better than never.

If I did not have kids, I would probably have not done anything. It worked out for me.

The important aspects, (hopefully Rocky will join this discussion, he is very knowledgeable about the workings of the VA) 1) File your claim, the sooner the better

2) answer and challenge the VA, don't drop the ball on your end, it will be held against you same with Social Security. I missed out on SSDI because of that.

3) Hang in there and get a good case rep, where I live, the State of Oregon provides assistance to Vets and so does a number of Veteran organizations.

Again, wish you the best.

SF,
H.

[PanzerBob]

DOC 2/47
In general it seems that it is rarely-if ever difficult to get a person with PTSD fight or to remain at their post. If anything, they are TOO ready to fight and may be at risk of firing before properly identifying the target, coming awake fighting, etc.

It appears that PTSD rarely renders a person unable to function in a combat envionment. The problems come when that same person attempts to function in civilian society.


I can personally attest to above, of the many reasons they used to "retire" me, was my decision making abilities were seriously flawed and could put others and myself harm's way unnecessarily.

As for civilian life, I can't say much for it, but I found a place while not in the military I still serve guarding military installations.

Bob out