The truth about killing

[Bombardier]

Have you ever wondered how you would cope if you were asked to fight in a war? How you would behave if you were suddenly thrown into combat, against an enemy hell-bent on killing you. Would you have what it takes to kill? Perhaps you might if the enemy was miles away, on the receiving end of a long-range artillery barrage from your troop. But what if the conflict was up-close and personal? What if you were dug into your position with enemy

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http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/science/society/killing.html

[Frisco-Kid]

Some of these statistics amazed me. 15-20%! I can understand them being questioned, considering the number of enemy killed and wounded in some of these wars; only 5/100 soldiers doing the shooting. Concerning the American Civil War, I can undestand the hesitation to fire on your own countrymen. In WWII, I wonder if these figures reflect both theaters [Europe and Pacific]. If not, this raises a special question: Did an almost all-white military [ours and Britain's] find it harder to fire on other white combatants than Asian ones? The statistics showed a significant increase in the Korean War.

I'm glad I read the whole article. I knew immediately that the 15-20% didn't pertain to us in Nam. I never saw ANYONE hold back in a firefight there. I know I sure as hell didn't. I like to believe that I would react the same way to a Caucasian enemy.

Speaking from experience, I can tell you that AGE is a factor in this. I believe the average age of an American combatant in WWII was around 27-28yrs. old [?]. In VN it was something like 22, with most of the enlisted men below the rank of sgt. E-5 being under 21. I was 19 when I first got there. The reason this is important is Peer Pressure. Most 19yr. old American boys would rather be dead than thought a coward by his buddies. This is known by The Powers That Be, also. They don't set the Draft age minimum at 18 for nothing. We think we're bulletproof at that age.

I agree with the article concerning the later training. Almost all of our small arms training was geared to using our weapons against people, from the .45 pistol, to a bayonet, to a machine gun. I'm sure this is even more technically realistic in todays military.

A good, thought provoking article.

[Zofo]

In this case, I don't think that race has much to do with it. Having trained very hard to deal with "...all enemies, foreign and domestic" it mattered not in ideology whether the target was white, black or any other colour. Certainly the bulletproof at age 18 rings a bell though. I never shot at anyone but in the Gulf in 90 & 91 there was an overwhelming feeling of superiority over the Iraqi forces because they were an unknown entity and that they were Arab - the usual epithets of "*******" etc were applied. This did not really change as the forces bust through the berms and crashed on. Admittedly I came through at a very, very late stage having been doing other things away from 1 (BR) Div so I was not front line. Talking to my some of my mates who were in 7 Armoured Brigade (Desert Rats) infantry, they said that when the time came to assult a position, the last thing they really, really wanted to do was to jump out the back of their warrior APC. They did and one guy in particular said he'd never been so scared in his life. Tracer and rounds were blasting every which way (he was with the Milan platoon), tank rounds were going off and it was absolute chaos. He fired his first milan and bang...he was in the game and nothing else mattered. When it had finished, there was a lot of shaking and shock. Back into the waggon and off to do it all again. My mate ended up at Matla Ridge and, having seen the destruction, death and horror of modern war, he left the forces.
War is not a game and it is not just about videos on missiles - people are at the receiving end of it and a lot of people nowadays don't seem to realise that.

[Bombardier]

War is not a game and it is not just about videos on missiles - people are at the receiving end of it and a lot of people nowadays don't seem to realise that.

spot on zofo, spot on :shock:

[tosh66]

When I was a gunner I quite happily fired live rounds on the ranges, where we all treated it as a competition. It shook me one day when we visited an impact area and saw the state of the place. We were picking up pieces of artillery shrapnel, and to see the jagged edges was a sobering sight. It brings it home to you what we were actually there for. Thank God I was never on the receiving end of an enemy bombardment. Friendly, yes, but thats another story. (see my pic of an Abbot on this site for that!)

[Zofo]

I think the first time I realised how bloody dangerous this sort of life can be was when I first signed up. My gang were detailed to be "Butts Party" for those of you who may get the wrong idea, that's where we sit in the trench at the bottom of the shooting gallery (rifle range), mark and shove up the targets. Listening to the rounds whistling overhead (regular and not that many to be honest) made me wonder. What frightened the life out of me was thinking of standing up and running forwards into that (sporadic) fire. I even got hit by a ricochet on one firing exercise. Very hot, very small and gave me a nice bruise as a memento.

[Elizabeth]

Hey, I just saw a TV special about this topic. They said that in WWI only 25% of people actually fired thier weapon. They siad this was due to the fact that they practiced on bullseye targets. By NAM they were practicing on targets shaped like ppl and they firing rate was near 100%. I was then talking to my history proff and he said that in Gettysburgh there are abonded rifles that are multi-loaded but b/c of the conditions then no one could tell if you fired or not. The TV show said that firing has become a conditioned response.
I just enlisted and hope to God I never get put in that situaution but to protect peace we do what we have to.

[Zofo]

well good luck with your service! Welcome too!
The standard fig. 11 target a charging soldier is good but at 300+ metres, it's difficult to make out. The more so wearing a gas mask!
There is no doubt tho' that once you take part in and hear a volley from a section or more, you'll be in no doubt that 100% of the gang are firing!

[Bombardier]

I just enlisted and hope to God I never get put in that situaution but to protect peace we do what we have to

I hope you dont either, as a veteran of the first Gulf War I can tell you with some confidence that its scary stuff.