Heads

[Capt. Cheatham]

deleted

[Bigbird]

Phew!.
I can probably understand why soldiers in theater would have been affected so badly by the war and things that they have seen, to enable them to do such a thing, but......for people back home to openly request such an item and even moreso for your good self to actually wish to possess one of these ash trays to be honest baffles me greatly.

I am aware of the atrocities committed by the japanese during the war, but arent we better than that?. Certainly now we have no quabbles with the Japanese and to disrespect them by posting this in the 'Amusing Military Stories' section offends me deeply.

i know that I do not post or login much around here but I always pay a regular visit and this has forced me to comment.

I am very dissapointed with this post as it has left me in a state of sheer amazement.

[Drone_pilot]

I Agree Big bird WTF would you want with someone else's skull?
They may have been the enemy at one time but they were human and as
such deserve to be left in peace.

[Bombardier]

Well as the Administrator I have to be neutral in most things and this I think has to be one of those occasions.

capt C has posted something that disturbs others and that others disagree with but at least he has informed us of some of what went on during those trying times.

As neutral as I am i still have a question...why the feck would you want one Capt C ?.

[Hollis]

The war was not over by '44. My understanding was the Marines served for the duration of the war. Maybe the Marine was WIA and separated from active duty? I never heard the story. I was a Navy brat and spent the first part of my life in the Pacific Islands. I heard a lot of stories when I was kid.

The Women who we bought our house from Dad's was a Marine at the Canal. Sadly I lost contact with them and can not ask. Another Marine mustanged at Tarawa, same lost contact with him too. Lot of those old vets are passing off. It does not sound like something the Marines would allow, but that was way before my days in the Corps.

[Capt. Cheatham]

I think everyone here has clearly missed what I was trying to impart, and that was the fact that the soldiers that the marines stepped over as dead, were gone when they left. The humor was not in the skull collecting. It was the practice of what led the marines to the cave in the first place. The time was 1942. For anyone to judge these men as to right or wrong by today's standards is clearly unfair. I repeated the story as it was told to me. Should we ban & censor movies from the 40's because of their language? I am saddened & disappointed to find myself criticized by some at a military site that is shocked by what war really is. Afterall, the name of the site is MILITARYIMAGES.NET .

As far as these type of 'atrocities' are concerned, they were also practiced in Viet Nam by marines and others, specifically the 'fish stringing' of ears taken from the dead VC. Whether anyone finds these acts revolting, or not, it is the psychological impact that is impressed upon the enemy that is relevant with these acts. Same as in the middle ages, when severed heads were placed on spikes, or corpses left hanging from trees & bridges until the corpse fell apart.

That's why we call it WAR. Just my own humble opinion.

I am sorry that I have offended anyone, as one is too many. Please accept my apologies to all who may have been offended by the story. That was NEVER my intent.

[Hollis]

Well Sir, unless you were in another Viet-Nam or time than I, I never saw the stringing of ears. Talk or scuttle butt or what ever it was called was back in the states. Yes war is brutal, a maybe a few violated the UCMJ and did wrongful acts. If they were caught there was a place out of Saigon, LBJ.. Long Binh Jail (spelling may be off). Also a Brig in Da Nang.

I did see Docs helping civilians who where hurt or injured. The enemy did not show mercy or kindness to those they felt betrayed them.

My reaction is based on the fact that a culture of defeat predominated the US during the Viet-Nam war. Part of that culture was to create a loathing for men and women who served. Many of the so-call barbaric acts that were reported were by posers, those who never were there.

A good link to read:

http://www.25thaviation.org/johnkerry/id27.htm

For me, my war is passe'. Many of my comrades are no more. What many of us are concerned about is that this culture of defeat is aimed at the current men and women who are serving. Already a fraud admitted to abuse, claiming to be a Army Ranger, he claimed to have committed barbaric acts in Iraq. Not much different than Senator John Kerry in the Winter Soldier investigation in the early 70's.

Maybe it is my knew jerk response that I responded, for that I apologize. It is not the teller of the story that perplexes me, but the continuation of the story if it is not fact. Again almost 3 Million men and women served the US during the Viet-Nam war and for about 20 years were considered to be pariahs of our society because of fictitious stories of inhumanity.

My dad fought in that war. He was in the China fleet in 1938. I was raised to admire the men of that time. Being Navy, I also learned to admire the Men of the USMC. During the Korean War we lived in Subic bay.


War is brutal, but not all men revert to animals in war. The war we are fighting today, is against animals, or actually worse than animal. The most effective weapons being used against us are at home, it is our media. The same weapons that herald the Viet-Nam as a defeat and the men and women who served as losers.


Those are my thoughts, I do not mean to offend anyone. I just feel our men and women who are serving deserve all of our support.

Semper Fi

Hollis

[Capt. Cheatham]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/10/20/vietnam_atrocities_revealed_in_report_boston_globe/


"There was a period when just about everyone had a necklace of ears," former platoon medic Larry Cottingham told investigators.


Lest you believe what I say is hearsay, check out the above link. While in high school in 1967, I saw those that had been sent home by some of the troops. Who knows, maybe they were bought in Saigon & sent home. Who is to say, but I did see them. Altho I was drafted in 1969, I did not have to go. I was lucky. Many of my pals did have to go, but all came home.

Yes, my Dad was Navy, too, in the Phillipines during WWII, Cavite, and my uncle was on the Princeton, when it went down in Leyte Gulf. Over 700 of his shipmates and friends went down with her. The crew of the USS Birmingham were machine gunning the sharks that were attacking those who were in the water. The first explosion on board, blew the man next to him to pieces and my uncle off of the flight deck and into the water. The 2nd explosion killed 200 of the crew of the Birmingham who were firefighting and rescuing people like my uncle who were in the water. I also have another uncle who was in the 101st and was one of the first to jump into France on the night of June 5-6. He was later declared KIA at Bastogne. He is buried in Arlington. He had enlisted in the army in September of 1941, before Pearl Harbor. One other great uncle, was a major in the USAAF, and was the commanding officer of the 350th AB Squadron, Executive Officer of the 1st Air Depot, Panama Canal Zone, who had also been previously stationed in the Phillippines with the 13th Attack Squadron, and if he saw any action, it was bombing whales and dolphins.


War is brutal, but not all men revert to animals in war. The war we are fighting today, is against animals, or actually worse than animal. The most effective weapons being used against us are at home, it is our media. The same weapons that herald the Viet-Nam as a defeat and the men and women who served as losers.


I could not agree more! The more awful war is, the more horrible it can be made, then the less chance of it recurring. My opinion is that I want the meanest, baddest, toughest, ugliest, cruelest guys that can be found fighting wars to protect me and my family. I could not care less about political correctness, racial profiles, sex ratios, etc. I want the enemy dead, and I want those associated with the enemy neutralized, permantently. And, frankly, I really don't care how my military accomplishes this mission, as long as it is successful. The sole and only purpose of our military is for one reason: To protect and save our citizens and society. We do not need to be fighting another war with one arm tied behind our back because we want others to think nicely of us.

Thanks for your service, Hollis.sal;

[Hollis]

Thank you for the reply, I think we are on the same page, BTW check out the link I posted. Then you will understand my post and why I will say this;

Right off the bat, ""There was a period when just about everyone had a necklace of ears," former platoon medic Larry Cottingham told investigators", I just don't believe that.

The have been a number of So-called Viet-Nam vet admit to such things, on further investigation, they may or may not have been in the service. Also they were never in combat. Just like the guy who claimed to be a Ranger in Iraq. He was a poster boy for the anti-war movement until it became widely known he never was there.


With RVN Vets. A survey done in the mid 90's state there was 13 million men claiming to have served in Viet-Nam, when actually less than 3 million men and women served. Many of the wannabes claim to be in some sort of SOFs.

A good book to read, is "Stolen Honor". It is believed the preponderance of horror stories (inhuman acts) where done by wannabes. Other words they never happened. The media has been more than happy to print those horrible tales, with out ever verifying the actual fact or even the credentials of the story teller.


Hollyweird movies picked up on those tales, many of the RVN movies reflect events that never happened, or where at least a rare incident that they painted as being a common event.


Also I think, if memory is right the Boston Globe has printed tales about this current war.

I agree with you, war need to be fought to best of our abilities. I do not advocate violating our rules of conduct either.

Again read the link, that I posted. There are many myths of the Viet-Nam Veteran too.

[Capt. Cheatham]

Johnson’s Fatal Mistakes


This is the guy that was trying to kill me!!! LOL

For me, one of the great ironies of this time, was that it was LBJ & JFK who escalted this war, but Nixon who took all the heat. And those very same people who agitated & protested against him, to do him in, are the ones that are in government today. LBJ was the one who fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin incident, for the purpose of escalting the war. And MacNamara........my God, what can be said about this 'whiz kid'. Bush is villified for going to war for all the right reasons, LBJ & JFK immortalized for going to war for all the wrong reasons. I believe today, just as I did back then, that LBJ profitted from the war, and the longer it went on, the morehis ilk made. It was to their benefit to draw this war out as long as possible. The longer the war, the more profits, kind of like Hilter's policies in Germany before WWII - the Guns & Butter principle. It turned my stomach to think that guys just like me, were dying over there in order to generate profits for those in power.

It truly amazes me, tho, that segments of our own people, would suffer defeat for their own personal and political gains. And what is even more amazing to me, is the fact that elements of the population are so naive as to their real aims, and then vote these people into office.

The best thing I can say about John Kerry, is that he looks like Gomer Pyle! Sorry, Gomer.

[John A Silkstone]

Very interesting reading by you both and I can see both sides of the coin. Some of the atrocities I saw in Cyprus were committed on civilians by the EOKA terrorist for no reason at all, other than they were one of THEM and not one of US!

I would liker to finish off with a quote from my book

‘YOU TWO! FALL IN –IN THREE RANKS’

In the telling, many details are left out or taken for granted. The tales themselves are honed on the storytellers’ stone to suit the audience.

Items or events are deleted or added to enhance the tale in its best light. In reality, after many recitations by others and me, the truth is often a million miles away from the actual facts.

It is human nature to embellish a story to its best advantages and make the teller to appear more of a hero.

When my children were young they asked what I got my medals for. Jokingly I answered ‘For cutting of a Germans head and throwing it in his face.’ The following day I had to attend their school and tell the children that I was only kidding about the story as my children had told the other children what I had said. My point being: It’s easy to embellish a story but you must be prepared to put thing right if they go wrong.

Silky

[Hollis]

Silky, thanks for the reply. I think the Capt and I are in complete agreement, though we are expressing it differently at times.

I am too perplexed by those with in our own respective nations that are willingly aiding the enemy because of their own desire for political power at home or greater share of the media or ????.

Best,

H.

[airborne]

Gentlemen, let me add my two cents worth, I knew guys in the Parachute Regiment who were die hard bad brutal bast*rds. If they had been in civvy street they would have been robbing banks and doing armed robbery, but while committing murder, madness and mayhem for Queen and Country they got medals for it !!! When they were full of drink you would not wish to be in the same street, never mind the same bar . HOWEVER, when the sht hit the fan those were the guys you were happy to have alongside of you !!!
I will never ever forget the knowledge that if I was out there in the dark, wounded and under fire SOMEONE would come and get me , wether we were mates or not, and I would unhesitatingly do the same for them.
I feel sorry for those who have never served and known that feeling.

Mike

[Capt. Cheatham]

Gentlemen, let me add my two cents worth, I knew guys in the Parachute Regiment who were die hard bad brutal bast*rds. If they had been in civvy street they would have been robbing banks and doing armed robbery, but while committing murder, madness and mayhem for Queen and Country they got medals for it !!! When they were full of drink you would not wish to be in the same street, never mind the same bar . HOWEVER, when the sht hit the fan those were the guys you were happy to have alongside of you !!!
I will never ever forget the knowledge that if I was out there in the dark, wounded and under fire SOMEONE would come and get me , wether we were mates or not, and I would unhesitatingly do the same for them.
I feel sorry for those who have never served and known that feeling.

Mike

Mike - you are 110% correct. I want the meanest baddest gorillas from the jungle defending me, my family and all I hold precious. I care not for being politically correct, equal rights, or any of that garbage about today's current military standards. Sorry, ladies, I do not want you on the front lines defending me, when the enemy is sending their meanest baddest jungle gorillas at you.

[PanzerBob]

Good day, All

Well from what I saw, the story was macabre, but not written in bad taste, IMO. I've found over the years since I left Rwanda I must careful on how I portray the savagery that occurred there as well. As you will find that some are unwilling to believe that Allied troops killed Axis troops that had surrendered. (Not already caged or filing to rear.), as another example. War is Hell. People, even soldiers forget and NEED TO FORGET how dehumanizing war can be. Those of us who can't forget are scarred one way or another.

Let us not forget………………

Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because ROUGH MEN stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -George Orwell

Prosit! BOB sal;

http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/543/CAF_Rough_Men_Silvia_Pecota_.jpg