Self Loading Rifle L1A1

[Bombardier]

For most of my carrer in the Military my standard small arm was a self loading 7.62mm rifle or Elephant Gun as it was warmly known. The L1A1 is the British version of the Belgian FN FAL rifle

Calibre 7.62mm
Length (m) 1.143
Length of barrel (m) 0.5334
Weight empty (kg) 4.337
Weight loaded (kg) 5.074 with 20 round magazine
Muzzle velocity (m/s) 838
Magazine capacity 20 or 30 rounds
Rate of fire 40
Maximum effective range (m) 600+

I did have some use of the replacement 5.56mm SA80 but my heart was still with my big Elephant Gun. It was Robust and simple to field strip and clean.

As I only had a limited use of the SA80 I wondered if somebody with more experience with both rifles could give me some comparisons. :?:

[Drone_pilot]

Maximum effective range (m) 600+

just my type of weapon the furthur away the enemy the better. :)

[HighlandSniper58]

I carried the L1A1 and also Sterling SMG and L4 LMG. I also used the M16A1 in 5.56mm but didn't have the good/mis-fortune to hang around long enough for the L85/L86 to come along. I did however have the luck to have a go with the original Enfield 4.85mm IW - the fore-runner of the SA80 - at Bisley around 1978/9 when it was being demonstrated by a platoon of Gurkhas. It was beautifully built, not quite the plastic and stampings of the SA80 - and shot like a dream, but so does the SA80 when properly maintains, and I am led to understand by friends in the Service currently that the new SA80A2 really does work as advertised.

[Drone_pilot]

Does anyone have any decent images of the L1A1 i could use on my web site as all i have are bad images, if anyone could help i would be most grateful.

[Zofo]

What a weapon but I never used a sight like that - what is it gun buffs please?

[Bombardier]

Its a SUIT sight = Sight Unit Infantry Trilux. :mrgreen:

[Drone_pilot]

nice pic thanks for that.

ref: sight anyone use the large night sight,
i smashed one of these when training, ill post the story later on.

[Zofo]

Its a SUIT sight = Sight Unit Infantry Trilux. :mrgreen:

Which is exactly what - pardon for asking. R. Sigs where never too switched on to letting us play with infantry kit! Nearest I got was the nightsight with the bloody huge battery that weighed a ton, turned everything green and hummed annoyingly!

[Bombardier]

Sorry mate this should explain it more. :mrgreen:
READ HERE (http://www.derbyfals.com/suit/suit.html)

[Zofo]

Thanks for that mate - a good bit of kit! Does it work as well as it says!

[Bombardier]

Yeah its pretty good, but like anything its only as good as the person using it :mrgreen:

[Zofo]

:!: :cool:

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Great topic ,

I just bought an SLR !! What a magnificent weapon!! I am still infatuated with it , but fired at 2 days ago for the first time. I am proficient in stripping up until removing the gas plug , and disassembling the fire pin....but I will figure it out

[Bombardier]

I always founf the dismantling of the fire pin the most tricky especially when you are cold and wet. The gas plug could be awakward more so when it had fired about 200 rounds and was clogged with cordite. You are right though it is a wonderful rifle. I and my buddies used to call it an Elephant gun due to the fact it would knock down the biggest of targets on the first hit. :mrgreen:

[tosh66]

used to call it an Elephant gun due to the fact it would knock down the biggest of targets on the first hit. :mrgreen:

And of course because of the mess it left your shoulder in after firing for a while :( !

[HighlandSniper58]

I loved the SLR, but recall an incident on excercise when I had put the gas plug in the wrong way round and couldn't understand for ages why my rifle wouldn't cycle on semi-auto - it was a real bugger having to rack the cocking hanfdle after every round until I realised what I had done.

[tosh66]

I'm sure you could turn it into an SMG with a piece of silver foil and a matchstick but for the life of me I cannot remember how?

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Bombardier!!

I have heard lots of cross words uttered about the SA80 as opposed to the SLR. I have never fired one , but the whole concept of making these things out of plastic sort of puts one off about owning an SA80. Put an SLR in someones face and they will likely cower , these modern looking plastics things almost don't look real.....I know the logic and premise behing the design and all , but they almost look like some toy that child plays with IMO.

[D_squad_22_SAS]

And of course because of the mess it left your shoulder in after firing for a while !

I am in pretty good shape and all to be fair , but after 50 rounds the SLR gave me no shoulder worries at all. I also have a new rifle with a good pad on the buttstock though.

[Bombardier]

Padding Sir? :(

Surely not, one of the most memorable things about firing the SLR was waking up in the morning with a bruising on yer shoulder. :mrgreen:

just kidding, very wise move :P

[HighlandSniper58]

I'm sure you could turn it into an SMG with a piece of silver foil and a matchstick but for the life of me I cannot remember how?

Yes, it could be made to fire fully-automatic, but it was totally un-controllable.

I fired a West-German heavy barreled G-1 (FN FAL) on a range in Germany - even this was not the most controllable thing on full auto.

[tosh66]

I remember now, just pull on the trigger and hold on for dear life until the mag emptied!

[HighlandSniper58]

Which often ended with you being peppered by dead crows!

[Sparky]

Yeh, those elephant guns caused a few problems in the "team tiles" event at Bisley when I was shooting in competition there. The tiles ( actually huges slabs of steel) were designed to be knocked down by the heavier 7.62mm SLR rounds.
When we fired the SA80 5.56mm rounds if they hit below the middle of the tile they just passed through, this was confirmed by spotters with scopes and the fact that you could hear your rounds hitting them.
We eventually worked out that you had to hit the top half of the tile, or ricochet your round of the dirt infront of the target to have a chance at knocking it down.
The gurkhas sussed this very early on and walked away with the trophy :(

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Sparky ,

At what distance were you sniping from at the tiles? When you say 'team tiles' , were you paired with another shooter as a team , or did that include a spotter?? On the SA80 ...is the muzzle velocity on par with the US M4A2?? I ran about 55 rounds through my SLR a week ago , and don't see what you chaps are going on about , there is no real kick to it at all. So the Gurkhas are good shots , eh?

JHR

[HighlandSniper58]

The Gurkhas have a very long history of shooting very well - especially at Bisley. To quote the Brigade of Gurkhas website.....

The Queen's Medal Competition

This year's Queen's Medal Winner is once again a member of the Brigade of Gurkhas. Sgt Beindrakumar Magar from 2 RGR finished with a total of 1144 points out of a possible 1220. The Silver Medal Winner CSgt Lalitbahadur Gurung from 2 RGR finished 12 points behind him.
The Bronze Medal was won by Major Krishna Gurung BEM 2 Sig Regt. In 4th place was Lt Ashok Sen GDC RMAS, in all a total of 16 from the Brigade of Gurkhas were placed in the top 30.

This is not uncommon - these little guys are brilliant in every way. For Gurkhas to achieve 16 out of the top thirty places in the competition which is open to the entire British Army is little short of incredible.

As for the SLR - a common reason for some people feeling heavy recoil with the SLR was exactly the same as with the No.4 Enfield - the rifle being fitted with the wrong length of butt for the shooter - these came in long/medium/short, but "pooled" rifles from the armoury were often set up with short stocks as standard, hence the heavy recoil - I never felt much from the SLR and have fired as many as 4-500 rounds in a day.

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Geez Highland ,

If I am reading that quote correct , the only chap from the UK(4th place even) was a Royal Marine. I always heard of the ferocity and fearsome reputation which the Gurkhas were known for , I guess this applies to shooting accuracy as well. Back to the SLR , I did change quite abit of the furniture out on mine(including the buttstock and pistolgrip) , before I ever shot it. I am now proficient at stripping it(to my satisfaction at least). There are a few other modifications I would like to make(L2A2 trilux sight , foregrips) , however ; I need some ammo boots for muster day at Camp Mabry.....purchasing more kit for my British WW2 impression takes precedence at the moment.

[HighlandSniper58]

Hmmm..........SUIT (Sight Unit Infantry Trilux) sights were never that plentiful even when they were in service. Be aware that the sight unit was hard-welded to the top-cover, so you will need to acquire a spare one of those unless when you find a Trilux sight it is already mounted.

I can't tell you how much I envy you being able to own what I feel by right we should also be able to pocess..........no point in crying over spilt milk though.

Another nice accessory would be the 30-rd. magazine from the L4 7.62mm Bren conversion - these were interchangeable with the SLR's mag and great extra firepower plus you could rest the mag on the gorund in the prone position.

[tosh66]

Another nice accessory would be the 30-rd. magazine from the L4 7.62mm Bren conversion - these were interchangeable with the SLR's mag and great extra firepower plus you could rest the mag on the gorund in the prone position.

The problem there, was that the LMG mag was gravity fed and when attached to the SLR caused a few jamming problems. :oops:

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Really Highland?? I am not going to have anything welded on my SLR. I have found the SUIT available used for about 250$ , but am diametrically opposed to mounting something on it like that. When my uncle(USMC Vietnam veteran) and I first shot it , I wanted to determine the proper gas setting(as per advice I was given) and was able to do this immediately. Next order was to see if I could get a decent group with it at 100 yds. I used a target the size of a paper plate , and was able to get a reasonable(for me anyway.....2.5 inches or so) grouping on the last 20 rds.
I really don't see a need for the SUIT is what I am trying to get at. I will get better with it after more practice. As far as the stupid gun laws in the UK , I am sorry that you must live within the confines of laws which apparently are useless(as I have heard that crime is 3 times what it is over here.....so nothing has been deterred). People of Britain should get these socialistic types out of government. I will say one thing more about it , and let it go..... The deterrent effect of a criminal not knowing which home/person(that he may contemplate robbing) is armed is THE mitigating reason gun control will never make anyone safer IMO. Highland , you are welcome to shoot with me any time , as I'm certain you'd teach me more than a thing or 2.

Heath

[HighlandSniper58]

Another nice accessory would be the 30-rd. magazine from the L4 7.62mm Bren conversion - these were interchangeable with the SLR's mag and great extra firepower plus you could rest the mag on the gorund in the prone position.

The problem there, was that the LMG mag was gravity fed and when attached to the SLR caused a few jamming problems. :oops:

Yup - I was aware of that, and that the springs weren't supposed to be so strong, but it worked fine for 2 Para at Goose Green, and I never had any problems.

[HighlandSniper58]

Hi Heath

When I say welded - it is only to the slide-off top cover - you know, break the rifle like a shotgun and slide out the sheet-metal cover on the action - well all you do is get hold of a spare one of those - fix the SUIT to it, same if you are mounting a night-sight or any other scope. Certainly when SLRs were legal here, some guys I knew had several with different bits of kit/gizmos fitted to them.

I have no personal experience of the SUIT, but it is supposed to seriously imporve the accuracy of the SLR, especially in poor light - any of you guys out there got any first hand knowledge?

As long as I am allowed my hunting rifles I'm happy - I have a German Sauer 200 rifle in .308W/.243W (interchangeable barrels) with two scopes on German swing-off mounts, it has a lovely custom stock in AAA Claro walnut, really beautiful, and it shoots 1/4MOA (withgood handloads) when I'm on the ball, and still pretty damned well when I'm not! ;) I also have a really nice little custom .222R on a Czech CZ action with a thumbhole stock - great on vermin/small deer (roe) out to 250 yds. My third rifle is a nice little Anschütz .22LR with full silencer - all you hear is the bolt working - great for rabbits and such. I've got permission on my certificate for a .303 - must fill that space pretty soon.

I don't miss semi-auto rifles too much, but handguns are a different matter, I'd love to get my custom 9mm Hi-power back, but it probably got chopped and melted years back - shame. There have been so many developments in pistol shooting in recent years, I love the SiG-Sauer and Glock pistols in particular, but I don't suppose we'll ever get them back now.

As for gun control - OK, it's draconian over here, but if it came to defending my loved ones, I know what I'd do - argue afterwards! ;)

[Bombardier]

Some time ago now I went to see my brother in Denver. We found a local shooting range and fired the 9mm Glock, it was a fantastic pistol. The next day we went back and fired the .45 glock. We couldnt keep away from the place after that. :mrgreen:

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Highland ,

I apologize for letting my Churchillian politcial views show :oops: . It is a source of contention for me because I truly see the world moving in a direction I do not care for , the direction opposite of self-reliance and culpability....Back to the subject.....Thanks for clarifying that it welds onto the bolt cover....you are right , that is nothing to replace. My next weapon will be a SIG P226 with a 15 rd mag , and night sights......I can get one used for about 400$. I am with you on the SIG , if it isn't the best pistol on the market , it isn't far behind. If you ever get to TX , do look me up...as I'd love to take you to visit some of my machine gun friends!! Maybe you could fine tune my aim abit for me as well , it certainly isn't of your skill!

All the best ,

Heath

[HighlandSniper58]

Mmmmm, Sauer P226, Glock 17/19 - music to my ears. Never actually fired either, both came after my main involvement with pistols which was in the late 70s/early 80s, but they were around when I drifted back into that area in the early 90s.

When there are such superb pistols around, how on earth did the US military get saddled with the M92 baffles me!

Another really nice handgun I did use and nearly bought was the CZ75 - I really liked it because of the combination of being able to carry in condition one (i.e. cocked and locked) or fired double action.

I've never been a great fan of the .45 - fired plenty Colt 1911s and clones, but I always found them difficult to control, I have fairly small hands and whilst I was quite happy with a double stack 9mm - the long (i.e. front-back) grip of the 1911 made it dificult for me.

Another pistol I have a very soft spot for - although purely as a back up or plinker is the Walther PP - a bit of a pip-squeek in 9mm kurtz or 7.65mm, but a sweetie all the same.

I've never been a revolver fan - fired most things from .45 Long Colt/.44 Rem Mag. downwards, but didn't like them much.

SiG-Sauer P226 or P228 - Hog Heaven................

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Evening Highland ,

I used to have a WW2 German Walther PP with all the waffen ampts and all.....I guess it was okay for your Pash , or as you said a back-up in the case of last resort. I wasn't too impressed with the accuracy of it(or perhaps it was my aim :lol: ). I know a few police officers around town , and most of them carry SIG's in .45 caliber or 9MM. I have had several .45's and they are ok......I would rather be able to sling 15 rds of 9MM than 8 or 9(at the most) .45 rounds at whatever I am aiming. My Grandpa keeps going on about wanting a Beretta M92....I don't know much about them as I have never fired one. I have seen the CZ75 for about 400 to 450 $ at the same place I bought my SLR , but again for that much I can get a SIG...with night sights. I am not personally acquainted with the Glock handguns as I have never fired one.....they have a really good reputation though.

Heath

[HighlandSniper58]

Hi Heath

Most of our POlice forces use Glocks, although there are a few S&Ws, SIGs and I think Berettas about, but almost all use H&K long weaps (MP5, HK33, HK91, G36 etc.) but a few use Steyr AUGs and even one force uses the SIG 551/552!

I agree with you, I'd always prefer 15 or more 9mm JHPs to 7-9 .45s........when I had my Browning, I had a 20rd. mag for it - pretty amazing in those days, but with some pistols now that's only 2-3 rounds over standard capacity.

[Sparky]

D squad, fortunately the Navy don't compete directly with the Ghurkas except in the all service team tiles. We have a Queens medal for each service. The downside is the Navy includes the Royal Marines, who's shooting team practice all day every day, where as the Navy only practice odd days here and there.
The muzzle velocity is 970m/s, but I've never fired the M4A2 so I couldn't compare. The team tile event was two teams of 4. Start in the prone position at 400yards, then on the whistle advance ( at full speed) to the 300yard line, get prone and start shooting. First to knock down all 8 tiles wins, but each team member only has 10 rounds. If it's deemed a tie, then they count the remaining rounds of each team and the one with the most left wins. Great laugh. Usually there is a "racing snake" who sets off at full pelt, and starts sending rounds down whilst the rest run at a more controlled pace. The logic being the snake will be out of breath and may take a tile or two, but the even paced runners can control their aim more, so have a better hit rate.
I never used the SUIT, as the SA80 was fitted with the SUSAT (Sight Unit Small Arms Trilux). The SUSAT is a X4 scope which doesn't have crosshairs but a post from the 6 o clock postition to the centre, so it's difficult to see if you have cantered the weapon over to one side., it also adds significant weight to an already heavy rifle ( about 11lbs). So when we fired from the standing position ( as we did a lot in the Marine Corps matches at Le June) it was very taxing on the arms.

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Highland ,

I hope today finds you in good cheer. I did neglect to mention that the aforementioned SIG's I am looking at are not new guns(they start new here at about 550$) , but I wouldn't mind buying one for 400 in VG or better used condition with the night sights. For the P226 I can get 20 , 25 or 30 round magazines in shotgun news! That's alot of lead to sling! As far as the Heckler & Kraut :lol: rifles , I guess they have begun to dominate the European market over there with the Police huh? They were always well made and accurate....not sure that their G3 was any better than my SLR(I don't think it was , but again I am biased ;) . If memory serves correctly , now those packed abit of a shoulder bruising....and my main complaint was that they were LOUD as hell!

Heath

[D_squad_22_SAS]

The downside is the Navy includes the Royal Marines, who's shooting team practice all day every day, where as the Navy only practice odd days here and there.


:lol: I am reading a really good book about these chaps called "The making of a Royal Marine Commando" by Nigel Foster. Foster makes on that these chaps are even tougher than our USMC over here is. Since you have been around both , what is your opinion regarding the 2? That is great stuff you posted about the parameters used in the match. Did you ever win one? It sounds tough.....I did okay from the prone position with my SLR a few weeks ago , but only at 100 yds......not anything like what you chaps were into!

Regards ,

Heath

[HighlandSniper58]

Royal Marines Vs. USMC - difficult. The Royal Marines are smaller, more specially trained and have a much narrower role than the USMC, but if I had to stick my neck out, I'd stick it out a long way in favour of the RM............but that's just a personal opinion and I don't want to get into any arguements over it. However..........it is really very difficulty to make a direct comnparsion when you consider that the USMC is virtually a complete fighting force it is own right with everything from armour to aircraft, whereas the RM is just 1 brigade in size and largely amphious infantry with support elements.

I'd agree with you about the SML Vs. G3 - the main difference is that od course the G3 has sslective fire, which is why our SF units use them over the SLR in Northern Ireland.

[D_squad_22_SAS]

One of the books I have read on the SAS details one of the operations in Oman , how the natives(which were diminutive in stature , but good marksmen) that were used as a defensive unit were complaining when given SLR's to use in combat situations because their knowledge was of the AK-47 , and the fact that it had a selective fire feature. They were given AK's and told to shoot them full auto at a series of targets , after comparison of the SLR performance where they were able to hit their targets 80% of the time vs. 20-25% rates for the AK's in full auto mode ...they quickly dropped the issue. I know a few Marines , my uncle is one(Vietnam vet) , and they(collectively) are tough SOB's , but the more I learn about the RM Commandos , the more I think that they are abit more of a select bunch....again not to start any flame wars...they just seem to be the tougher bunch to enlist in....You wouldn't do well to piss off either one I'm sure :lol:.

[HighlandSniper58]

Hi Heath

I would say you've got the right idea about the Bootnecks (RMs). They are a superb fighting force, some of the very best we have, but like everything where the words Military and British come together, we haven't got very many of them.

The entire 3 Commando Brigade is made up of 40, 42 and 45 Commandos - basically re-inforced infantry battalions, with Aviation, Engineer, Communications, Amphibious landing and other support elements, but we can't be talking much more than about 500 officers 5,500 men if that.

They did a superb job in Iraq, and 40 Commando are out there again as part of the UK-led MND(SE) force.

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Hey Highland ,

Just got back from my Uncle's house(USMC Vietnam vet). They have a ranch about 1/2 an hour from me , and they needed my assistance gathering and storing 450 or so bales of hay. I took the SLR and fired about 20 rounds , but shot low...although to be fair I was pretty torqued up from doing all the work I did. I got to meet another chap , a buddy of my Uncles named Dennis who was in the Special forces in Vietnam doing covert ops....The guy was tiny compared to me(I am 6'1" 188 lbs) , and much older but he worked his @ss off(not that I didn't....we all did)....I was amazed at how quickly this little guy moved for his age. I hope to take my rifle to an outdoor range next weekend so I can try to zero it in....though I believe it only will need minor adjustments. Dennis had quite a story to tell about spending a week living in a tree eating bugs with the other 3 in his squad , as the VC were combing the jungle below searching for them.

Regards ,

Heath Richardson

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Thanks for the info on the L2A2 SUIT ....I added it to my favorites in the SLR category. So it appears that after I shell out the 250$ for the SUIT , then I still have to shell out more $ to have it function as it should since the radioactive element has to be removed for it to be imported :roll:

It is easy to see how these things can become a money pit :|

As of tomorrow I can legally have a threaded barrel , and a flash hider too.....more$$$$.

[HighlandSniper58]

I know it costs loads of $$$, but at least you can have them - here it's airsoft and memories. Well, I haven't taken the airsoft route, but at least I have fired many nice weapons while I had the chance - the only hope my son has is a holiday in the States or to join up!

I have read a lot about these "pre-ban" and "post-ban" assault weapons, but I have to say it confuses the hell out of me.

Whatever, at least the candy-assed liberalsStateside aren't as bad as our candy-assed liberals over here - ours will be banning water pistols next on the grounds that if you squirt someone long enough and hard enough they might catch a cold and eventually die! :shock:

[D_squad_22_SAS]

I know it costs loads of $$$, but at least you can have them - here it's airsoft and memories lolb;



Whatever, at least the candy-assed liberalsStateside aren't as bad as our candy-assed liberals over here - ours will be banning water pistols next on the grounds that if you squirt someone long enough and hard enough they might catch a cold and eventually die! lolb;

The 1994 assault weapons ban passed under Clinton(and the last act of a Democratic controlled house and Senate) , was abit of a misnomer for it didn't BAN the sale of any weapon. It only produced a list of attributes you found on military weapons and said you can have 2 , but not 3 things from the list and still be legal(items on the list were collapsable stock , pistol grip , flash hider , bayonet lug...things of that nature). I have no doubt that they will try to go after them again here at some point , but at that point I will be so good at stripping my SLR , that I will take it down into small pieces and bury them in the yard if they come to look for it. :lol:

As far as liberals go , I am convinced that extreme liberalism is a mental disorder and the ones who are imbued with it should be locked up and studied in a laboratory.

Your comments made my day!

Heath

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Highland ,

I could send you or post a picture of an SLR(to settle your argument)....It is actually a G1 that the guy who I bought mine through has. BTW , I have some other pictures I could post also....how does one do that?? Some are pictures of Royal Marines in action that I copied...some are re-enactment pictures of WW2 armor. Is there a certain way that you have to post them , or an area to post them in? I wish I were rich sometimes , or could win the lottery or something tom;

There is a whole lotta toys out there Id' like to have!

Heath

[Bombardier]

I think the best way for you would be to use your gallery space. Its easy to do. :mrgreen:
Once you have posted your pics you could let us know here. :cool:

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Hello Bombardier ,

I am not certain I know how to utilise said 'gallery space'......Is there a space alloted for a certain number of pictures? How do I access that space?? Can I change the pictures ever?

Regards ,

Heath

[Sparky]

D squad, click on Gallery on the top left of the page , then click on "Upload Photo's" on the right of the page.

You have 1mb of space and each photo must be under 100kb in size, though there is a 2mb limit for zipped files.

Yes you can change your photo's, but it took me some time to figure out how.

Bomber, is there an easy way I've missed, or would it be possible to add a "delete photo's" link next to the "upload photo's" link?

Another suggestion whilst I'm on it....in the photo details, it would be good if it informed you which catagory it had been posted in. Just a thought. :mrgreen:

[D_squad_22_SAS]

Thanks for the info mate! I will get after it shortly. My scanner is broken so I must find another way to load my pictures into the PC. How long were you at camp lejeune Sparky? What is all this I saw on the TV last night about the ruckus in Parliament(looked like candidates for stun gun usage to me :lol: )?? and what about that bloke in the Batman costume and his shenanigans?? :lol:

[HighlandSniper58]

Apparently the use of stun guns was approved yesterday - ouch! ;)

[Sparky]

I was in Lejune for a month ( which was a bonus as the marine corps matches only lasted 2 days) but it was a good PR exercise and a great holiday for us. Apart from Reveille, which was 5.30 and came as a bit of a shock to those of us used to getting up at 7am :shock:

I went out two years running, and it was great seeing the different methods employed. For example the USMC had a saying "if it's raining, we ain't training". At first we wondered whether it was because they were made of soap, after all if you didn't train in the rain in Britain, you'd never train !!
It was actually because there is a high risk of lightning, and wandering round open fields with long bits of metal isn't a good idea.

Instead we spent hours at the snapping in barrel. This was a new concept to us and we didn't think much of it at first. The barrel ( well 2, one welded on top of the other) was painted white and had miniture "Dog" targets painted on. For the UK people reading thats the phonetic name of the type of target, we weren't taking aim at Lassie and old yello !

We stood there holding aim and dry firing at the targets. Usually in pairs, one man with his rifle and the other behind him cocking the rifle for him (with the inner workings of the magazine removed so the cocking handle didn't stay locked to the rear each time).

It conditioned our muscle groups that were used in the standing position, which is a big help when the lactic acid starts to build up and you get the shakes.
It also got you used to just hearing the rifle (or pistol for that matter) going click when you squeezed the trigger...those marksmen out there would have hung me if I'd said PULLED the trigger. Doing this over and over helped prevent recoil anticipation, where you tense up as you squeeze because your brain knows the gun will make a big bang shortly. It also helped the more inexperienced shooters overcome chicken finger with the pistol.

I really enjoyed my time there, the marines were so friendly and made the entire team feel at home. Even the Secret Service guys mingled in the bar on camp, I traded a team tee shirt with one and his was more like a tent on me..they were big fella's.

As for the parliment ruckus, it was because a bill was being passed to ban fox hunting in England and Wales. Some protesters got into the house of commons and the session had to be suspended. They think they had insider help because it's quite a complex layout in there and the swipe card system wasn't working that day....suspicious!!

The police outside were accused of heavy handed tactics...my humble opinion? If you go to a protest, you run the risk of clashing with the police. Especially when hardcore elements are in the crowd holding placards of "ready for trouble". The police lashed out with batons, what the news didn't give much coverage to was the thunderflashes and bottle being thrown at the police.

If you want to go to a hotbed protest go ahead, just don't whine when you get a PR-24 over your noggin !

[D_squad_22_SAS]

As for the parliment ruckus, it was because a bill was being passed to ban fox hunting in England and Wales.

Ahhh yes....I do remember hearing about that on talk radio over here. Now I personally wouldn't hunt the little beasts , but I understand how far back the tradition goes , and I would support those who wanted the freedom to do so. I agree though that you should expect a knock on the head for gettin' out of line with the police(over here they'll kick your @ss for such behaviour).

Doing this over and over helped prevent recoil anticipation, where you tense up as you squeeze because your brain knows the gun will make a big bang shortly.

I guess it wasn't allowed to use earplugs ? I use them when I shoot , as the No.4 MkI and the SLR both ring the ears quite abit after awhile!


Sparky , what is chicken finger??? :lol: :lol: besides fast food from Burger king

[gunplumber]

all this talk about SLR's brings back memories of working on and carrying FN C1A1's and as a side note...we still have a small lot of FN's in the military..as the cadets use them with the .22LR kits in them. plus when I want to I just go to my gun safe and pick up my L1A1 SLR that I bought for $200 bucks canadian :D

[D_squad_22_SAS]

200$ Canadian???? You made out like a bandit on that one. Did you buy it off of some crackhead desperate for a high or something?? I have been having a whale of a time trying to zero in the sights on mine.....I will get it , it's just taking a little longer than I anticipated. So they still have 'em adapted to shoot .22 LR??? why , to save on ammo???

[HighlandSniper58]

What sort of .22 adaptor did Canada use - we hd a nice little semi-auto set up made by Heckler & Koch, great for use on indoor "watch & shoot" video ranges and things like that.

[gunplumber]

its the same HK kit that you fella's used in your L1's..a great piece of kit

[D_squad_22_SAS]

its the same HK kit that you fella's used in your L1's..a great piece of kit


Plumber ,

Why did they use the kits? was it to save on ammunition costs?? How exactly did they work?? was is easy to engage and disengage the .22 kit??

[HighlandSniper58]

As I remember them, the kit consisted of a barrel insert with chamber, a breech block and a magazine. The kit operated on straight blowback, there being no need to lock it, and it could be installed in a matter of minutes.

The main aim was to give realistic weapon training in ranged not suited for fullbore use - these were even mounted on vehicle trailers or in concrete tubes set into banks etc.

[D_squad_22_SAS]

these were even mounted on vehicle trailers or in concrete tubes set into banks etc.


Really Highland?? It would seem to make perfect sense to do just that if space was abit of a luxury. Did they kits ever give cause to malfunction at all or were they of solid reputation for their reliability. I would think that modifications would enhance the degree of risk for misfire....or better put of some nobber screwing things up!

[gunplumber]

the .22 kits were used for the cost savings on ammo..when you wanted to keep the troops basic arms skills up, the HK sub cal kit was and is outstanding.....not much would go wrong with them. The biggest problem I ever had was when guys would try and take the .22 barrel out of the 7.62 barrel they would beat the crap out of the crown

[gunplumber]

some of the sub cals are pretty neat little things..any of the gunners here ever use the 14.5 mm subcal for the 105mm guns? was funny as hell seeing a a crew putting this "tiny" 14.5 into a howizter :lol:

[jaybee]

the SLR i would say had no recoil well not to the point that it would hurt your shoulder that was the point of the return spring and gas regulator
not in the same case as the lee enfield 303 or 7.62 (308) due to the fact it did not have a return spring the enfield was more accurate than the SLR but i had no problem hitting a target at 500m with an SLR i have used the sa80 that had been upgraded by h/k and was impressed only with its servicability and lack of stoppages, problem with the sa80 is its caliber 5.56mm is only good up to 300m anything more and wind becomes a problem going back to its size and velocity 5.56mm will pass right through the target and may not put it down which means you have to put 2 or more rounds in it advantage of 7.62 you dont need a clear target.
i shot at bisley in the early 80 and was in the queens 50
the shot consited
1#of 2 sighters and then 10 rounds at 500m my best 42 out of 50
2# 10 round rapid fire at 300m my best 41 out of 50
3 # 2 sighters 10 round total 2 rounds at 500m prone 2 rounds kneeling/sitting 400m 2 rounds standing 300m 2 rounds standing 200m
2 rounds standing100m my best 43 out of 50

SLR 7.62mm and iron sight only

[jaybee]

Strip Weapon As For Daily Cleaning Then Unscrew Main Retaining Screw So Weapon Is In 2 Parts Hold By The Pistol Grip Look Into Where Hammer And Trigger Mechanism Is And Look At The Sear Place A Broken Match Under The Front Side Of The Sear. Weapon Is Now Fully Automatic Recommend You Use A Bren Mag.
There Are Other Ways To Make It Fully Automatic But They Are Not Safe As You Have No Control Of The Weapon Such As Setting The Firing Pin Proud Unsafe As The Weapon Fires Until Mag Is Empty Or Weapon Jams

[jaybee]

THE H&K SUB CAL WAS USED NOT FOR COST SAVING BUT SO IT COULD BE USED ON SMALL RANGES SUCH AS INDOOR RANGES I THINK A 22 WILL FALL TO EARTH IN APROX 1/2 A MILE WERE THE FULL BORE l1a1 7.62 WILL FALL TO EARTH APROX 2 MILES.
WE DID USE THE H&K SUB CAL AT HYTH RANGES FOR PRE NOTHERN IRELAND TRAINING WERE YOU WORE A BIB WITH A NUMBER ON IT AND YOU WOULD BE FOLLOWED BY CCTV AROUND THE RANGE THE RANGE BEING 3 STREETS THAT YOU WOULD FIND IN BELFAST AND YOU WOULD COME UNDER CONTACT AND THEY WOULD WATCH HOW YOU REACTED AND WOULD BE DEBRIEFED AND SHOWN THE VIDEO OF THE PATROL

[Drone_pilot]

the SLR i would say had no recoil well not to the point that it would hurt your shoulder

Ever had the gas plus turned around (used for firing the Energa AT Round) I have and I fired one round of 7.62 Ball And i thought my shoulder was broken, so dont tell me the L1A1 SLR had no recoil LOL.

[micheal mccann]

I am ex royal anglian and always loved the slr, my unit test fired the sa 80 shortly before it came into service, and quite frankly I was not impressed with it. If you knew the slr well you could feild strip it and re-assemble it blindfolded, you could not do the same with the sa 80, too fiddly, and not soldier proof.

[killjoy77]

I am ex royal anglian and always loved the slr, my unit test fired the sa 80 shortly before it came into service, and quite frankly I was not impressed with it. If you knew the slr well you could feild strip it and re-assemble it blindfolded, you could not do the same with the sa 80, too fiddly, and not soldier proof.

Hey mike is your family from The county Armagh in northern Irerland becuse your name is exactly like my grand fathers and my last names are Scrudder/MCcann.

[Braith-Wafer]

I heard the Brit issue SLR's were sold off to african countries and were used in Sierra Leone.

Would bringing the SLR back in the 5.56 calibre(Not the FNC) be an ideal weapon for the British Army?, I hear loads of squaddies miss it.

[Unregistered]

Would bringing the SLR back in the 5.56 calibre(Not the FNC) be an ideal weapon for the British Army?, I hear loads of squaddies miss it.

That would not be ideal. The 7.62mm round was one of the best things about the old Mechanical Musket. OK, I'd still rather carry an SLR rebarrelled to 5.56mm than an SA80, but why bother? Just use it unmodified; much better.

[SuperSLime]

As I only had a limited use of the SA80 I wondered if somebody with more experience with both rifles could give me some comparisons. :?:

The SA80 is more compact, selective fire, about the same weight and has a larger magazine capacity. You can also carry a lot more ammunition.

And it's badly made rubbish. The A2 version makes it acceptably reliable, but for a total cost now approaching a thousand quid a weapon I'd bloody well hope so!

My SLR had three stoppages in four years. My L85A2 will manage that in an average range week. I'd have my old mechanical musket back any day.

Damn, some sod in Sierra Leone probably has it now :-S

[Drone_pilot]

The 7.62 was an excellent weapon, I used it throughout my service including
4 tours of N.I. and would have nothing less, the only time it let me down was
on a winter warfare course in Norway when due to not being issued
the right oil it froze, (so not realy the weapons fault).

Why reissue it in 5.56 (a short to mid range round) when i can use 7.62 and
hit the target at a 1000 meters +.

in short dont fix something thats not broke.

PS, wooden furniture and not the plastice rubbish.

[SuperSLime]

PS, wooden furniture and not the plastice rubbish.

I dunno, I liked the plastic. The wood was walnut, and looked beautiful, but I found it got slippery when wet.

Especially when you broke the rules and wore your green woolly gloves on stag :rolleyes:

[Drone_pilot]

Especially when you broke the rules and wore your green woolly gloves on stag

Or wore the NI gloves The ones with the padded fingers & Knuckles. :eek:

[SuperSLime]

Or wore the NI gloves The ones with the padded fingers & Knuckles. :eek:

They were allowed; the reason given was that you could grip a weapon with them. Mine were always soaked in Nikwax, so they were quite sticky anyway. I still found that the plastic SLR bits gave a better grip though.