View Full Version : A message to all my friends in the UK
This is something that has been on my mind for two and a half years and I have never had the opportunity to express it in person. So I will do so now.
As you may imagine, on September 11, 2001, America's day of tragedy, the feeling in all American hearts was that of pain and outrage.
I sat in front of the television with my friends, watching over and over the scenes on the CNN news program of events that had taken place in New York.
And as we watched, the camera switched to London.
I am a tough old paratrooper, but I, and many others in the room, were brought to our knees and had tears coursing down our cheeks when, at the Changing of the Guard ceremony in London, that magnificent band began to play the American National Anthem.
Never have I felt so close to my brothers and sisters in the UK than at that moment.
I just want to express a fervent THANK YOU! for that wonderful gesture, and that "hand on our shoulders" at a very very difficult time.
THANK YOU!!!
Bombardier
24-03-04, 07:23
It wasnt me that set it up but....Your welcome 82Rigger.
I can tell you that a lot of work was done by myself and my colleagues at work raising money for the families of those who lost loved ones, it was a great pleasure to help you all , just like you have done for us so many times in the past,
God bless.
Brothers In Arms
It is very rare for the Brigade of Guards to play other national anthems at the Palace. However, after 11 March (Madrid bombing) the Spanish National Anthem was played at the change.
Considering the amount of lives lost in the USA and the international roll call of the dead, this sort of tribute, albeit minor, is very much in keping with the attitude of Britain. Although I don't live there at the moment the reactions in Spain were as shocked and saddened as I've never seen before (until March 11).
This may be somewhat out of tone but I came across this website, a massive conspiracy set up. Whilst I have a mind of my own, a lot of these articles are way beyond my knowledge of physics etc. I wonder if our American friends (and everyone else of course) could comment on the nature of the content - polite or otherwise. Thank you!
The site is: http://911review.org/index.shtml
I have no problem with commenting on the website and explaining my opinions on events that are of interest to you.
I am concerned, however, that such discussion will delve into the POLITICAL arena. I do not care to begin a meaningful discussion only to have it deleted. As far as I can see there is no political forum on this website.
If the webmaster approves continuance of the discussion then I will be happy to respond.
Bombardier
24-03-04, 21:30
No problem carry on, the type of politics I refer to is that which covers the reasons for going to war.....the political decisions behind it. I feel very uncomfortable discussing it because I dont think its right that we should.
i always intended that this site would be for the serviceman and any that have an interest in them, or the services in general.
I dont want a situation where we are undermining the loss of servicemen and over riding that loss, by discussing the politics behind the death and not the sacrifice that the servicemen has made.
Any other politics would be fine with me.
Ive got to stress that although I may be the administrator of this site, the decison would really be with you all.
If anybody disagrees with me then let me know your thoughts about it .
I agree with the webmaster about keeping politics out of any discussion - reasons, whys and wherefores.
I would personally like to discuss the above site to an extent to understand the various agendas of certain people, to make sure that I am up to speed and not someone who takes things solely on trust.
I think the panel would benefit on this occasion as there must be open discussion, especially in light of the various admissions coming from senior and ex-senior members of the Bush administration at this moment. There are counter allegations made by the "usual suspects" but in light of this I'm sure that if things start getting either het up or unreasonably heated (in this forum I doubt it very much) but if it does, we can go to personal messaging and slag each other off that way!
So, a cover up or not is the base of this discussion I believe. Is there a hidden agenda of world domination or are the terrorists for real? I hope we can have a mature discussion with all points of view represented.
...but before I get into the discussion I want to make something perfectly clear. NOTHING that I EVER post is intended to reflect on the demeanor or the character of ANY soldier of ANY nation.
Good soldiers do their duty, and many of them perform beyond the call of duty to the point of the giving of their lives.
That INCLUDES soldiers of nations that have been in conflict with my nation and her allies.
I know of instances of battle between German soldiers and British or American soldiers in WW2, or between North Vietnamese and American soldiers in Vietnam, that the enemy soldiers' behavior was such that if I had been a commander on that battlefied, even though the lives of my comrades or their allies had been lost, I would have given those enemy soldiers a medal for bravery or valor.
Duty is duty, bravery is bravery, and valor is valor, regardless of whose side you're on.
My opinion is that the website, in general, is overly "alarmist".
My reasons are:
1. I see statements/accusations that are, based on my knowledge, not credible.
2. I see statements/accusations that are true, but for different reasons than the "ominous" reasons proposed.
Examples:
"There's no airliner debris at the Pentagon, and the deep and focused damage to the building could not be from an airliner crash."
This incident happend on a week-day morning in broad daylight, involving a building that employs some 30,000 + people. There are literally hundreds of people who witnessed the flight path of the airliner into the building.
"The source of the anthrax was the US Military biological weapons program."
The U.S. has provided biological lab samples and technologies to many sources outside the U.S. and I would think that would include nations that may later have become "unfriendly". Whether the source was military or civilian, I have no idea.
"The NTSB never held inquiries into any of the 4 plane crashes, as required by law, and the FBI is withholding the data from the airliner's flight recorders."
The NTSB reports are on their website and several others. I have read them.
If the FBI is withholding flight recorder data, then HOW WOULD ANYONE KNOW THAT?
"All of the steel from the Twin Towers was shipped out of the country before any investigation was held."
ALL of the material from the twin towers, steel and everything else, was trucked to a site on Long Island where is was sorted and sifted DOWN TO THE SIZE OF A QUARTER-INCH (6.3 mm) grid in order to obtain human remains and personal items that might lead to the identification of victims.
Sections of steel that showed impact damage from the planes and heat damage were sent to laboratories for analysis of the grain structure of the steel to determine exactly why it failed.
AFTER ALL MATERIALS were examined, the steel was sold, loaded onto barges, and shipped to a foreign buyer.
"The Twin Towers didn't collapse, they exploded outwards; parts of the buildings were ejected as far as 70 m. before they began to fall, and the buildings' concrete was reduced to fine dust."
This is partly true and partly not true. The structural failure began where the planes hit. The UPPER stories were collapsing onto the STATIONARY lower stories. When the moving material hit the stationary material there was nowhere for it to go but sideways until the lower stories started to fail from the impact of the debris from above. Perfectly logical.
"No steel structured skyscraper in history has collapsed due to fire."
No steel structured skyscraper in history had ever been impacted with 44,000 liters of flaming fuel.
"The steel support columns in the sub-basement of the Twin Towers were melted, and five weeks later, were still pools of molten steel."
The air conditioning units of the twin towers were located here. They were HUGE units containing HUGE amounts of refrigeration coolant. If this coolant was leaking it would have been a hazard to those working on the debris pile above. This was a MAJOR concern of rescue management.
Teams of engineers were sent down to assess the danger. They were able to reach the units and determine that no coolant was escaping.
I find it difficult to believe that these teams of engineers could have operated in "pools of molten steel". There were fires burning IN THE DEBRIS PILE for months after Sept 11th but not hot enough to melt steel.
"The 47 story World Trade Center Building Number 7 was levelled in 8 seconds, seven hours the after the Twin Towers came down. As it hadn't been hit by any plane, nor sustained any significant damage from the "collapse" of Twin Towers earlier two buildings away, why did Building 7 Collapse?"
Two buildings away? The website has stated that parts of the twin towers were ejected as far as 70 meters before they began to fall. Would that include two buildings away?
ENOUGH
Now to address some of your other questions.
Was there anything "covered up"?
Sure there was. On Sept 11, 2001, the United States of America got caught with her pants down. Just like at Pearl Harbor. Would ANY nation want to admit that?
Look at it this way:
Question: What single nation on the face of the earth would you think would be most likely to have her planes hijacked by terrorist extremists?
Answer: Israel
Question: When was the last time an Israeli airliner was hijacked?
Answer: Not since 1968
The U.S. has JUST RECENTLY implemented the security level that Israel has had for almost forty years.
Is there a hidden agenda for world domination?
Looking at the question objectively, I don't have enough information to make an assessment.
In my opinion, the war with Afghanistan was justified.
In my opinion the war with Iraq was NOT justified.
I am "troubled" by the behavior of the U.S. government, and have been since the asassination of President Kennedy in 1963. It is my opinion that that is when our "troubles" began.
All my opinion.
Thank you for that, a good straightforward reply to a very vexing question.
The site does go on to say (in some depth I'm afraid) that there were "two" aircraft flying about the Pentagon at the time, both different sizes, shapes and speed. I was not there and unfortunately too much can be read into these statements. No two (three or three hundred for that matter) people can describe the same event exactly so credence on that will have to wait.
Some of the more extreme versions floating about this site (as links) state that the US Govt. transhipped ALL the passengers from the four aircraft hijacked (somewhere in Virginia?) and then flew the aircraft via secretly installed fly by radio control. Ghost aircraft were up at the same time to cover the descents etc. The mind absolutely boggles over some of these theories!
As to the nature of these sites, I think we can agree on looking that they serve two purposes. Firstly they are anti-globalisation propaganda sites hidden beneath "the rubble" of 9/11. 2ndly, although they claim to be otherwise, they are virrulently anti-semetic. For both the above reasons I think this should be taken with large pinches of salt.
I agree with you that all soldiers, no matter what colour, creed etc should be respected for their actions. I might not agree with those actions but there we are.
Finally, on a purely moral point, I think that both wars were justified. Both defeated dictatorships that have no place in the modern world. The second war was a means to an end and the justification given by the politicians, their actions, disregard of the UN and world opinion is totally, uterly and disgracefully wrong. As in Spain on 14 March, the people changed their govt. It is highly possible that other countries may do exactly the same thing in the next 12-24 months.
Bombardier
25-03-04, 17:54
Duty is duty, bravery is bravery, and valor is valor, regardless of whose side you're on.
I'll second that.
The second war was a means to an end and the justification given by the politicians, their actions, disregard of the UN and world opinion is totally, uterly and disgracefully wrong.
That is what I meant by JUSTIFICATION. In my opinion the REASONS presented and the EVIDENCE presented were not sufficient justification for going to war.
As in Spain on 14 March, the people changed their govt. It is highly possible that other countries may do exactly the same thing in the next 12-24 months.
Let's HOPE so! ;)
Fingers crossed anyway! :evil:
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