VIETNAM Starter

[Bombardier]

I Have seen the Tv series and the Films but I have never had the pleasure of liasing directly with a Vietnam Veteran.

I would really like to hear about the exploits of the US Forces in Vietnam.
I would not be that ignorant to ask how they felt about the war, just maybe how they felt about being there. Im sure that the actual events were not as glamorous as Hollywood make them out to be.

God Bless them all.

I would love to be briefed, if possible :roll:

[Bill Farnie]

This is a tough question to address for every soldier serving in Vietnam had different views on the war. My personal take is as follows:

1. It was nothing like what is seen in movies about the war with maybe the one exception being "We Were Soldiers Once….And Young" by Mel Gibson.

2.Because the politician's ran the war rather then the military there was no clear cut strategy to win it. The United States won every major battle
including the Tet offensive of 1968. Although the enemy surprised everyone with Tet and did win significant victories, militarily it was a disaster for them.
They lost whole regiments which made their divisions have practically no military capabilities and forced them to retreat into Laos and Cambodia with
U.S. and ARVN troops hot on their tails inflicting more casualties. But in the U.S. media Tet was made out to be a major victory for the communists and
that helped sway peoples opinions about supporting the war.

3. Because of a lack of a strategy, for most American combat troops there was no illusion about fighting communism in Vietnam to keep America free. We fought for one another. Watch your buddies six and he will watch yours. The proof is the fact that the communists took over South Vietnam and America is still a free country. Which brings me to my final thought on this.

4. After the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam, I feel it was a disgrace the way my country just let the communist forces roll down from North Vietnam and their staging areas in Laos and Cambodia without helping the RVN, as was promised by President Nixon. All one has to do is look at all the names etched in that black granite Wall in Washington and it kinda makes you wonder did their sacrifice mean anything at all.

As far as telling about exploits/war stories goes, most VN vets I know don't talk about them much except with men they served with or other combat VN vets.
Maybe my brothers from the Patriot Files site might add more along the lines of your question.

Frisbee

[Bombardier]

Thank you very much bill for sharing that with us.
I expect it isnt easy to talk about it and i admire your openess, thanks again.

[Frisco-Kid]

Like he said, it's a tough question to address. I pretty much agree with everything he said. Like my post on the INFANTIER [Infantry] page illustrates, it wasn't very glamorous. Nothing like Hollywood would sometimes depict it. Vietnam vets didn't get a very good shake from Hollywood. We were usually shown as dope smoking homocidals running amok, commiting all sorts of atrocities. This includes one of our own, Oliver Stone. He sold us out to Hollywood in "PLATOON." Like Bill said, it wasn't until "WE WERE SOLDIERS ONCE.....AND YOUNG" that we were shown in a truer light. I hope this sets the standard for all future Vietnam movies.

I went to Vietnam as a volunteer. I enlisted in the Army specifically to be a paratrooper and go "see" the war. I did this as an 18yr. old that was flunking out of college, and was probably going to be drafted anyway. Although patriotism played a small role in this, it was mostly going to be "Tom's Big Adventure." I had no idea where Vietnam was, let alone any of the politics that got us there. When I joined, we'd had combat units there for about 6mos.. I hoped it didn't end before I got there. That's how naiive I was.

As I went through Basic Training, Advanced Infantry Training, and Jump School I found out more and more about our reasons to be there: To save the S. Vietnamese people from the scourge of Communism, and to prevent the Domino Effect - It's spread to the rest of Asia. Sounded like a good Cause to me. A little over 6mos. after I joined, I got what I wished for.

At the end of my tour [JUN67] I still, for the most part, believed in this. I was still ignorant of the politics of it all, and, from my microscopic view, we were winning. This was based on the only unit of measure that I had: We were killing more of them, than they were of us. They bloodied our noses pretty good at times, and even beat us up a couple of times, but overall, we were kicking their arses.

By JAN68 I had been stateside as a trooper in the 82nd Abn. Div. for 6mos.. I was starting to wonder what was taking us so long with this. So was some of the rest of the country, judging by the protests against it. In early FEB68 we were told that the 3rd Bde. [mine] of the 82nd was going over. As a newlywed [DEC67], I wasn't too thrilled about this. However, it was my job and duty. Besides, I volunteered for this so figured that I didn't have alot of bitchin' rights. Also, about 75% of us had done at least one tour, so it wasn't like they were picking on just me. I had 11mos. left in the Army. I got out 1JAN69.

The war dragged on for another 3yrs. after I got out. I was greatly disillusioned with it all by then. I never protested against it after I got out. To me, it would be a betrayal of those that I served with and watched die, and the ones that were still there. I still have a dislike, of sorts, for those who did. Like Bill, I was ashamed of the way we deserted the S. Vietnamese after we were gone. We just let the supply line dry up.

Yeah, I have alot of mixed emotions about those years. The biggest one, though, is PRIDE. Pride in my service, the men that I served with, and the units that I was a member of. I'm not much on telling war stories, but I will try to put some anecdotes and experiences on this thread from time to time as the mood hits. As most of you on here are Europeans, I want you to have an accurate idea about the war and those of us that served in it. Beyond Hollywood :lol: . All I can tell or comment on is what I saw and did. You'll have to form your own opinion about the war overall, and the government that ran it.

[Bombardier]

Yeah, I have alot of mixed emotions about those years. The biggest one, though, is PRIDE. Pride in my service, the men that I served with, and the units that I was a member of.

I personally understand the above comment, although any action I have been involved in would have been nothing like as intense as that of both you and bill.

I try to keep political views and reasoning out of this site as my intentions when creating it were to serve the servicemen past and present. and not engage in the political. I understand that in some cases this will not be posssible.

Your comment quoted above, I feel hits the nail on the head and I felt good when reading it, this is what we are all about, this is what should be important to all of us who use this site.

Your comment brought back some fond memories.

Thank you both again for your posts and support. especially with regard to this deep and emotional subject of Vietnam.

[Frisco-Kid]

Kontum [Kontoom] is in the Central Highlands about 30mi. north of Pleiku, and about the same distance south of Dak To. The countryside around Kontum, and west to Cambodia, is some of the most rugged country in Vietnam. Steep mountains with narrow fingers running off of the sides of them. Many of the peaks were 700'-1300' [ft] elevation. When operating here, we often had to use ropes to haul each other up some of the hillsides. When I was there in DEC66-JAN67, most of it was still covered in triple canopy jungle. As the war progressed, some of this along the Ho Chi Minh Trail was knocked down with Agent Orange, a very strong defoliant. Today, alot of it has been cleared by slash-and-burn clearing to make room for the coffee and spices plantations that the Central Highlands are now covered in. My wife, myself, and another veteran and his better half visited VN for 10 days late APR-early MAY03, and saw it first hand. Will tell of the trip sometime, if interested.

In early DEC66 all 3 bns. of the 101st was moved from Tuy Hoa [Tooey WA], over on the Coastal Plains, to Kontum. We deployed into LZs in the Plei Trap and Dak Akoi valleys. It was some ominous country, and in DEC it's shrouded in low, misty clouds alot of the time. This was heavy NVA country, and some of the fiercest fighting of my tour was in this area. To my knowledge, the area was never completely pacified the whole war.

A couple of days before Christmas '66, we were pulled out of the bush for a stand down at a basecamp just outside of Kontum City. We were setup around a PSP [Perforated Steel Pad] airstrip. There was an ARVN [Army of the Republic of Vietnam] Ranger or Airborne unit there, also. The day after Christmas, my CO asks if anyone wants to make a jump with the ARVNs on the 27th. Myself and 2 buddies, Beetle and Coz, decide to do it. There's also some guys from other companies and some LRRPs [Long Range Recon Patrol] that decide to make the jump. We spend most of the rest of the day practicing PLFs [Parachute Landing Falls] off of the back of a duece-and-a-half [2 1/2 ton truck]. I, and my 2 buddies, haven't made a jump since Jump School almost 6mos. earlier. We need the practice so maybe we won't hurt ourselves.

The next morning we're boarding C-130s with our T-10 parachutes and reserves on. After we take off and fly over a couple of mountains, I'm wondering where the Hell the DZ is. I assumed we were jumping somewhere near, or on, the airstrip. I can see out of one of the doors, and when the Jumpmaster stands us up I still haven't seen anything but jungle. The green light is on. When it's my turn in the door, I'm still only seeing mountainside in front of me. As I make my exit and my 'chute opens, I finally see that we're jumping into a long, narrow valley. It looks to be wall to wall rice paddy. I also notice that the wind is kicking pretty good. I'm thinking this maybe wasn't such a good idea. As the ground comes up to meet me, I do a PLF in about a foot-and-a-half of rice paddy water. I don't even have a chance to get my feet under me. My 'chute is dragging me until I hit a dike so hard, I think I broke something. It slows me down enough to where I can get up and collapse my parachute. As I'm doing that, 2 ARVNs get dragged over the dike, and it doesn't even slow them down. OUCH! We're eventually picked up by trucks, and I spend most of the ride back trying to get the mud out of my eyes, nose, mouth, and ears and feeling like I'd been dragged through a gun barrel. If this jump had been in the States, the Safety Officer would have scrubbed it. I make it into town the next day looking for a little comforting from one of the local ladies. I find it.

Two days later we're back out humping the mountains. In the early morning hours of 2JAN67 my company is almost overrun. We get mauled pretty good. The brigade leaves Kontum around the end of JAN67 to return to our main basecamp in Phan Rang to get resupplied and redeployed. I wasn't much sorry about leaving Kontum.

[Frisco-Kid]

A couple of months after I returned to Nam with the 82nd Abn, we're on a patrol somewhere west of Gia Le. At one point we're crossing a stream. It's about 20' wide, and about thigh deep in the middle. On the other side, the bank is about 8-10' high. We find a way up alittle ways downstream. It's of moderate steepness and we have to go up it single file. Well, you can imagine how this turned into a muddy slide in no time.

As a guy carrying an M-79 Grenade Launcher is climbing up, he slips and pulls the trigger on the 79. The round is a fragmentation round, and the projectile hits the trooper in front of him in the leg! It hits him in the calf. The shin bone in the front of the leg is snapped and protruding through the skin. The round is still in the calf muscle. This trooper is a BIG black dude with calves about as big as my thigh.

The reason the round didn't explode is because of the way it's made. The barrel of the M-79 is rifled to start the round turning as it's fired. It has to make so many revolutions before it arms it's self so it can explode. This is for the grenadiers safety, so he can't shoot it off in front of himself [like this] and blow himself and his buddies up.

The medic comes to see what he can do for this guy. Now, this is kind of a sticky situation. Keep in mind, this guy has an unexploded fragmentation round in his leg. Something you don't want to mess with much. Amazingly, there wasn't much blood. About all he can do is splint and immobilize the leg, and try to keep the guy calm. We call for dust-off [medevac chopper].

We find a passable spot for an LZ and have to blow some trees to clear it enough to get the chopper in. We guide him in with some smoke. We load the guy on, and I never see him again. We're told later that he lost the leg. I don't know if it was injured too badly to save, or if the Doc's were afraid to try to remove the unexploded round and just cut it off.

There's No Such Thing As "FRIENDLY FIRE."

[Bill Farnie]

" We're told later that he lost the leg. I don't know if it was injured too badly to save, or if the Doc's were afraid to try to remove the unexploded round and just cut it off".



Frisco.... Don't mean nothin'.........

[Frisco-Kid]

DON'T MEAN NOTHIN'- True story, Bud. Thanks.

[Bill Farnie]

Webmaster,
This was prompted by your quiz on the American Civil War and the quote you posted. It just reminded me of this.....

"If you can't see 'em , you can't shoot 'em and you can't see 'em laying on the ground."

Said by Lt. Dan Yarbrough minutes before he was KIA on Hill 996 Ashau Valley July 11th 1969


Bill

[Bombardier]

I suppose he is right, its just a little ironic that he ended up being killed adhering to his own advice. ;)

Thanks Bill

[Frisco-Kid]

:) DOGGIE-ON-A-STICK

One time while patrolling through a ville in the Central Highlands, a buddy and I stop to watch a woman that is squatted down cooking some pieces of meat that are skewed on a piece of split bamboo. She is holding them over a charcoal broiler like roasting marshmellows. She looks up at us, gives us a big, black-toothed smile [from chewing beetle nuts], and offers us some that is already cooked up laying on a large banana leaf next to her. We grin back at her and, through mostly sign language, ask her what it is. When she gets the gist of the question, she says something in Vietnamese. We look at her and shrug our ignorance. So.......she BARKS at us! :-o
"DAMN," we say in unison.
"She's cookin' a freakin' dog," says my buddy.
Well, being 19yr. old paratroopers, we're not going to let this woman, or each other, think that we're chickens, so we say "Sure," and each take a stick. Each one has four pieces of meat on it. Watching each other, we warily take a piece of meat into our mouths and slowly start chewing. After a couple of seconds we grin at each other. It's a little tough, but doesn't taste bad at all! Tastes like any other piece of roasted meat; somewhere between pork and beef. We down the other pieces. I give the woman $1.00 in MPC and we head out, laughing and teasing each other about having just eaten a freakin' dog. :)

[Frisco-Kid]

WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?

It's the hottest time of the day. That time of day when the whole country seemed to shut down for a couple of hours. The heat is oppressive. The air is heavy and still, and about the only thing you hear is the insects. The company had been humping since daybreak and we were stopped for a break, just inside the treeline. We had spent most of the morning crossing, what seemed like, a sea of elephant grass. Alot of machete work, and it was nice to be in the trees where you could at least find some shade. This isn't too far from the coast, and it's not like thick jungle. Not alot of underbrush beneath the trees. Mostly palm-type trees, some broad leafed banana trees, and a stand of tall hardwoods once in awhile. We had a pretty long field of fire if we needed it. The CO says we'll knock off for an hour.

We hadn't seen hide nor hair of Charlie since we came to this AO, about a week ago. He was here at one time though, because we've seen a few bomb craters in the area. We put out a few perimeter guards and just kind of kick back. We all drop our ruck sacks and rest. Some guys doze; some grab a bite; some are in low volume conversation. I check my feet and change my socks and just rest, kind of dozing with one eye open.

About a half hour into the break, a BIG WHOOMPFF breaks the silence. Everybody jumps up, grabbing their weapons. "What the Hell was that!" Several of us look to the sky, looking for planes. Nothing, but sure did sound like a bomb. And not far away, either. It goes back to an even deeper silence because now, even the critters are silent. We saddle up and start patrolling in the general direction of the blast.

After about 3/4ths of a mile the point platoon says they found something. We all move up to where they are. They're in a big stand of trees, and in the middle of it is a big bomb crater....new. As we start to cautiously look around, we start getting a feel for what we're looking at. We start seeing bits of weapons; a barrel here, a rifle stock there. We also start finding, what looks like, bits of fresh meat strewn about. Then, someone says they found an arm over here, or a head over this way. I look up in one of the trees, and there's part of a human torso hanging in it! JAYSUS!

We eventually figure out that Charlie had been trying to dig up an unexploded bomb, or trying to get the explosive out of it, and it went off in his face. There's no way to tell for sure how many of them there were. They were either vaporized or blown to pieces. Chuck was NOT having a good day. We patrolled that area for a few more days, but never did make any contact. We get moved to another area.

[Bombardier]

we head out, laughing and teasing each other about having just eaten a freakin' dog

Typical Military Humour. I love it! :)

[Frisco-Kid]

My First Day

After a non-stop flight [17hrs.] from Travis AFB, California, to Tan Son Nhut Air Base, on the outskirts of Saigon, Vietnam, we finally touch down. It's been real quiet on the plane for the last 20min. or so, as everyone's been looking out of the windows ever since land came into view, each with their own expectations and fears. When we finally come to a stop out on the tarmac and start to descend the stairs from the air conditioned plane, the heat hits me in the face like I'm standing too close to a forest fire. Jaysus! Can I endure a year of this? We're taken in through the terminal [no air conditioning], pick up our duffle bags from baggage, and put on buses on the streetside. The first thing I notice about the bus is that the windows have wire mesh on them. The driver tells someone that asked that this is to keep someone on a motorbike from tossing a grenade or satchel charge through them. I wonder if this was learned the hard way. I'm guessing "Yes."

We're headed for the 90th Replacement Bn. in Bien Hoa. As we go through the populated areas, the first thing I'm impressed with is the congestion of people [I later learn that all of the towns and cities are choked with refugees from the countryside fleeing the war], the visible poverty, and the bustle and chatter of the place. Next is the stench. It's a mix of dirt and dust, rotting vegetation, sewage, burning wood or charcoal, stagnant water, and cooking smells of some exotic foods that I can only imagine.

When we get to the 90th, we're processed in and issued bedding and directed to a barracks and cot. Since we're all still wearing the khaki uniforms that we flew over in, we're told to change into fatigues. That's fine with me, since mine has been saturated with sweat since 10min. after we landed. We meet some of the guys that are already bunked in the barracks. Some of them have been there for several days, with stories of guard duty and sh*t burning details. We just kind of hang out until we're told to fall out for the first of several formations that we have to make that day. At each formation some guys have their names called. They fall out, never to be seen again. I make it through the rest of the day without my name being called, or being assigned to any details.

The next morning, in the first formation of the day, my name is called. I'm told to turn in my bedding, get my duffle bag, and fall in at a designated area. We're told that we've been assigned to a unit and handed our records and orders. I read mine and see that I'm going to the 101st Airborne Division. COOL! I'm going to be a Screaming Eagle. A few guys that I know from AIT and Jump School are also going there. It's comforting to know somebody. Some of the other Airborne guys are going to the 173rd or 1st Cav.. We're bussed back to Tan Son Nhut. We're put on various C-130s or choppers, depending on where we're going. The next stop for me is Phan Rang, the main basecamp for the 101st Airborne Division.

LET TOM'S BIG ADVENTURE BEGIN!

[Bombardier]

Nicely wrtitten Tom and a great resume of your first day in Nam.

, each with their own expectations and fears

I know excatly how that feels,kinda took me back a little. :?

[Frisco-Kid]

Thanks Andy. Some of this is therapeutic, you know.

[Bombardier]

Yes, im sure it can be matey sal;

[Zofo]

Tom you say you picked up a posting order to the 101. Having completed jump school you are a badged paratrooper but have no unit? Is that the way it was?
Great start tho' - I've only ever been to Thailand and the description of your first moments brings back the same sorts of memory - less satchel charges and grenades! The smell and the crowding were incredible!

[Bigbird]

You must have been really scared when you first arrived there?. I know I would have been, but then I am a girlie.
No seriously though what was going through your mind when you got there?, if I am being nosey, which I usually am tell me to mind my own business. o-

[Bombardier]

Interesting question bigbird?. Are you happy with that one Tom?

[Derrick Stephenson]

I just don't know how to describe my feelings.
Guys, if you've heard of a U.K. pop group from the 60's called 'Gerry and the Pacemakers', listen, if you can to the words of the so called 'Anfield Anthem', - 'You'll never Walk Alone'.
This is the closest I can get.
With the greatest of respect,
Derrick.

[Frisco-Kid]

ZOFO: If I was going to a stateside duty station, I would have been given an assignment right from Jump School, i.e. 101st at Ft. Campbell, Kentucky; 82nd at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. One brigade of the 8th Inf. in Germany was Airborne. The 82nd had a unit in Panama full time. But, I had volunteered for Nam. Everybody that came in-country as an individual replacement was processed through the 90th Replacement. They cut your orders for your unit assignment. This was based upon your MOS and who needed you the most. It was pretty much the luck of the draw. Being Airborne qualified, I was pretty much going to one of the Airborne units mentioned, but......nothing in the army is guaranteed. If a straight leg infantry unit had just taken a heavy hit and needed bodies NOW, anybody with an infantry MOS could have been given to them, jump qualified or not. Knew a few paratroopers that this happened to. Even though it was pretty much the same job, this sucked. A paratrooper didn't get the $55/month Jump Pay if he wasn't with an Airborne unit. Big money in the army of the '60s.

BIGBIRD and ANDY: Not a problem. It was a pot pouri of different feelings. I had volunteered to come to the war, so there was a sense of excitement and adventure. I was 19yrs. old. There was also a small sense of fear of the unknown, especially once on the ground. With that first blast of hot air on my face, and the wire mesh on the bus windows, I started to wonder about the decision to come here. As I started seeing armed people, gun jeeps, etc., that first day, the reality began to sink in. As I had the free time to think about things, my mind would wander; will I make it through my tour; was my training good enough to keep me alive? The worst fear that I had though, wasn't the fear of dying. When you're a 19yr. old paratrooper, you think you're bulletproof. No, it wasn't of dying,.....it was the fear of possibly finding out that you're a coward. Or worse, being a coward and getting someone killed because of it. Letting your buddies down. This, COMBAT, was going to be the litmus test of all that you had been taught, and all that you had been built up to believe of yourself. "Do you think you can cut it?" I asked myself. "I believe I can," I answered.

DERRICK: Thank's Bud. BTW, Gerry and The Pacemakers was one of my favorite groups to make it across The Pond in the '60s.

[Bombardier]

,.....it was the fear of possibly finding out that you're a coward. Or worse, being a coward and getting someone killed because of it. Letting your buddies down.

I can understand, but isnt it strange how we feel more strongly about being perceived as a cowards etc than we do of actually dying. Soldiers eh? . A wonderful breed of people. sal;

[Zofo]

As you'd volunteered Tom, would you have signed on again for another tour in 'Nam if requested? I've read that quite a lot of people re-toured, I think H. Norman Schwarzkopf did three tours there. Having done your time, did you think that enough was enough, you'd done what you set out to do and sort of "time to give someone else a chance"?

[Frisco-Kid]

ZOFO: BEEN THERE, DONE THAT

I entered the Army on 10JAN66. After completing Basic Training, a 2wk. leave, Advanced Infantry Training, Jump School, and a 2wk. leave, I arrived in Vietnam 30JUN66. 1yr. to the day later, when I left Vietnam, I still had almost 18mos. left on my 3yr. enlistment. I was assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division at Ft. Bragg, NC. It was about the only Army division still intact, stateside. The 101st still had 2 brigades at Ft. Campbell, KY. I was hoping to go there. Unit Pride. I wanted to stay in the 101st.

In JAN68 the spy ship PUEBLO is captured by the N. Koreans. The 82nd Abn. Div. is put on stand-by alert in case we have to get it and the crew back by force. On the 10FEB68 we're put on Red Alert. We're going to be deployed. THIS SUCKS! It's WINTER TIME in N. Korea! But when they start issueing us gear, we notice that we're being given new jungle fatigues. This isn't cold weather clothing. We had heard about the Tet Offensive that was initiated by the NVA and VC the end of JAN68. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where we were being sent.

We're told that it is only the 3rd Bde that is being sent. Guess what brigade I'm in. I find out later that Westmoreland had wanted the whole division. Johnson told him he could only have the one brigade They want us to at least 97% strength, and they're pulling whole companies out of other brigades to get us there. There's alot of pissed off people. About 75% of us had already done at least one tour. Some of the officers and NCOs have done 2 or 3. I'm among the pissed off. I volunteered the first time, but not this time. None of us did. Plus, I'm a newlywed [23DEC67] and we had just found out that my wife is expecting our first child. However, it's my job and duty to go where they send me. But, I don't have to like it.

The Advance Unit had left 11FEB68. All the rest of us left during the next few days. On 14FEB68 [Valentine's Day] President Johnson shows up at Pope AFB to tell us how proud our country is of us, and for some Kodak moments. On the 15FEB, I get on a C-141 and take off. On the 17FEB68 I'm landing at Chu Lai, SVN. I have about 11mos. left in the Army. I'll expand on this second tour another time.

So, you see, not everybody that did multiple tours were volunteers. Many were, though. This war lasted for about 10yrs.. By 1972 there were career officers and NCOs that had done 3, 4, or 5 tours. I spent 23mos. in Nam during a 36mos. enlistment. Alot of guys extended their tours by 3-6mos.. This was sometimes done to get a specific job. I knew several people that extended to become a door gunner on a chopper, for example. By 1968 they had made a policy that if you rotated back to the states with less than 6mos. left in the service, you could get an Early Out. Alot of guys would extend to meet this requirement by the time they returned stateside. This worked especially well for draftees, as they only had a 2yr. commitment. Some guys wanted to return. I had a friend at Bragg that volunteered to go back because he didn't like stateside duty. Alot of us had trouble readjusting to the Spit And Polish of stateside duty stations, including me. When my enlistment was up I declined to re-enlist, in spite of the offer of a hefty re-up bonus [I was a Sgt. E-5] and a guaranteed duty station. In JAN69 there was still no end of the war in sight. I believed they would eventually have me back there. I just wanted to put it behind me, and move on. I was a family man now. My son was born while I was gone. He was 3mos. old when I got to meet him. I figured they had gotten more than their money's worth out of THIS piece of equipment.

[Zofo]

Blimey (this so as not to get deleted by Himself!) - so we look forward to your details on 2nd tour - the Tet offensive?
You say Westmoreland wanted one brigade - what sort of strength does this represent? If 75% had already completed a tour before, this must have been some seriously pi**ed off bunch of people, not to say hideously well trained and versed in the ways and doings of mr. Charles Victor!
When a brigade of say the 82nd deploy (or any of your para units) do you have integeral light artillery etc to call upon or did you just use the kit that was already deployed by the US army?
You (or should I say we) see a lot of stuff depicted and written of the people who came back from Vietnam and had trouble adjusting - PTSD I think it's called. Johnny Rambo (in the first movie) for example - there are 100's of others. Was there adequate medical cover on return and is the depiction correct in that there were loonies running all over the place. Leonard Lake for example?
Thanks for taking the time to go through this - have you thought of putting all this on paper - a book perhaps?

[Frisco-Kid]

Zofo:

Westmoreland wanted the whole DIVISION, but Johnson would only give him one BRIGADE. There were 3 brigades in 1 division. A brigade is about 3500 personel. In the 3rd Bde.,there were 3 Infantry Battalions; 1/505, 2/505, and 1/508. There was also 1 Troop of the 1/17 Cav. If I remember right there were 3 Batterys of the 2/321 Arty, 1 for each Parachute Infantry Battalion. Plus, there were some Engineers, MPs, Maintanence, Supply, Signal, Medical unit, etc..

PTSD: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. A very complicated subject. It's been around in all wars with such names as Soldier's Heart, Shell Shock, Battle Fatigue, etc.. I don't know exactly when the VA finally recognized it and offered treatment and compensation for it. It's true that many of us began to have troubles in our lives; alcoholism, drug addiction, trouble holding down a job, trouble keeping relationships, etc.. But not all of us. Most of us have readjusted to lead normal lives, and I think we're the majority. Don't buy into the Hollywood depiction of us being mostly "a bunch of loonies running all over the place." But you can't do and see the things that many of us endured, and not be affected by it. Strange as it may sound, some guys had trouble coping with the fact that they survived. It's called "Survivor's Guilt." I've had my share of nightmares through the years. A couple recurring ones. They've tapered off in the past several years, though. For a long time I had trouble sleeping. I would wake up several times a night and check the whole house; often the outside, also. I was "checking the perimeter." That, too, has pretty much passed. I think most of us came to terms with it, over time. Many didn't. Some died before they even knew what was going on with them. Like I said, a very complicated subject. You'd do better doing a GOOGLE search on it, if you're really interested.

[Bombardier]

I have a very long and detailed description of what PTSD is , which i will post later on as Im at work now. It is very lengthy but a good read.
:)

[Zofo]

I certainly don't buy the Hollywood line and would certainly not myself classify anyone as raving loonies.
I much prefer to get information from the people who've seen and done it if you get my drift. The way that certain sections of the media (I include films and novels in this catagory) depict the aftermath of war is something that gets rapidly out of hand. For this reason I asked you about the PTSD issue. It is good to hear that "most of you" have readjusted - I think I understand the very basic psychological reasons behind this problem and am glad to see that it is being recognised and treated (in one form or another). I just wish it could have been developed and understood earlier. The 100s of soldiers shot for desertion, cowardice and the most hated of phrases, "Lack of moral fibre" is a damning endightment (sp?).

[Frisco-Kid]

Tom's Great Adventure: Part II

My unit is on the ground at Chu Lai. We're kind of in the middle of the airlift, with more still coming. I heard later that there were planes landing at Chu Lai every 30min. for a week. The 1/508 and 1 battery of the 2/321 Arty had already deployed to LZ Gator to set up a fire support base and start combat operations.

Meanwhile, Westmoreland has decided that the whole brigade is going to be needed in the Hue/Phu Bai AO. Now the trick is to get there. Because of the seige at Khe Sahn taking place, we could only get a couple dozen C-130s for the move. Most of these were used to move the artillery batteries north. The rest of us would have to convoy up in our vehicles, plus what we could get from the Americal Division stationed at Chu Lai; about 70 2 1/2 ton trucks. This is about a 60mi. trip up Hwy. 1.

When the Tet Offensive was first kicked off, Charlie blew most of the bridges on the highway. We had to sit in Chu Lai for a couple of days waiting for the engineers to get them fixed. Because we have our own vehicles, my unit is one of the first one's to roll. Plus, we're going to be most of the road security for the convoy. We have Jeeps and 3/4 ton trucks mounted with .30 & .50 cal machineguns and 106 mm recoiless rifles. When we head out, it's a miserable, rainy day. We make it to Danang without incident, but that night Charlie hits us with rockets and mortars. We take no casualties.

Once again, we're held up for blown bridges. It never stops raining. We finally get going again, and we have to go through Hai Van Pass. This is a narrow, winding incline, with surrounding hills. My unit and part of the 1/508 lead the convoy up the pass. We come under mortar and small arms fire several times. We return fire with the machine guns and 106s at their emplacements. The convoy keeps rolling, and we don't lose 1 trooper. We get to Phu Bai as it gets dark.

There are 2 more Serials [convoys] behind us. My unit and 1 infantry unit are sent back up the Pass to keep it open for them. We spend 3 days up there, having shootouts with Charlie once in awhile. The second Serial makes it through okay, but the third one gets held up in Danang. Once again, because of blown bridges. Finally, we all make it safely into Phu Bai. A hell of an accomplishment.

The next task is to construct a base camp. We're assigned a huge peice of ground a few klicks west of Camp Gia Le. All of the various units form a big circular perimeter to secure it, and the engineers start the painstaking job of sweeping it for mines and booby traps. Not an envious job. We dig fighting holes on the crests of the hills, with HQs and support units on the reverse slopes. There's extensive and aggressive patrolling of the area to keep it secure during the construction. It was amazing how fast bunkers were built. All ranks pitched in. The base camp was named Camp Rodriguez after our first casualty, SSGT Joe Rodriguez of the 1/505th.

A couple of weeks after we got to Phu Bai, I'm reassigned to C co, 1/505 as a squad leader. I spend the next 2mos. helping establish fire support bases, pulling security at fire bases and doing Search and Destroy patrols west of Gia Le, towards Laos.

In MAY67 I'm reassigned from the 82nd Abn. Div. to a newly formed security company, attached to the 4th Transportation Command in Cam Rahn Bay. We are to supply the security for tanker truck convoys from Cam Rahn to various places along the coast and into the Central Highlands. The way this transfer came about is a story in itself that I'll tell another time.

I spend the last 8mos. of my time in the Army riding a gun Jeep with a mounted M-60 machinegun on it. We are out on the road for 2-4 days at a time, and in the rear for 2-4 days between convoys. It's dangerous work at times, but still beats being a grunt. The biggest plus of all is that when I'm in Cam Rahn, I have 3 Hots-And-A-Cot, sleep between sheets, and take hot showers. A Grunt's Dream! I share a room with another E-5. We have hootch maids that keep the barracks cleaned and do our laundry. He and I eventually go in halves for a small 'fridge to keep beer and sodas in. It's better than stateside duty! I have some scary times on the road, but it still beats spending the night in the jungle.

[b]I LOVE BEING A REMF! :)


The 3rd Brigade of the 82nd Airborne Division stayed in Vietnam for 22 months, sustaining 223 KIAs and 2 MIAs.

[Bill Farnie]

Operation Apache Snow

May 10, 1969 at 0700 Operation Apache Snow begins with multiple combat assaults by the 3rd Brigade 101st Airborne Division into the A Shau Valley. Units were 1/506, 2/506, 2/501 and 3/187 with 3rd Marine Div, 1/1 ARVN, 2/1 ARVN and 2/17 Air Cav , A/2-319 Arty, A/1-83rd Arty, A/2-138 Arty, B/2-11 Arty and B/326 Engrs Demo teams as supporting forces.The most significant action during the operation being the battle for Dong Ap Bia better known as Hamburger Hill.

[Bombardier]

Wasnt there a book called Hamburger Hill?, I seem to remember starting to read something similar a lomg time ago. :roll:

[Bill Farnie]

Bombardier,

Yes there was a book written by Samuel Zaffiri and also a movie.

[Bombardier]

I never got to finish that book , which is why i couldnt remember much about it. Ill have to get another copy. :P

[Frisco-Kid]

CRITTERS

Vietnam, being a tropical country, had a large variety of animals. From mosquitoes to Asian elephants. As anywhere, the insect world was the most represented. Mosquitoes were prevalent, but not as bad in the Central Highlands. These carried several diseases transferable to humans, the most common being Malaria and Dengue Fever. We were given Malaria pills [sometimes]. I saw several cases of Malaria. I came down with Dengue Fever. Many of the bugs were HUGE. The cockroaches were 2-3in.; there were centipedes and milipeds that were 6-8in.. You would have to check your boots and clothes for scorpions before puting them on. There were many different spiders, many of them poisonous I'm sure. Leeches were quite common and disgusting. Once gorged with your blood, they could be bigger than your thumb. It was amazing where they could make their way; your crotch or an arm pit. There were ants, both red and black, big enough to to draw blood with their bite. These could be especially bothersome when you were trying to be silent and still on an ambush.

There were plenty of reptiles, several of them deadly. I saw several cobras, the largest being about an 8 footer. A guy in my squad grabbed one by the tail, not knowing what it was, as it tried to escape amongst some boulders. He was surprised and scared as hell when he hauls out about a 5ft. cobra. And it was PISSED. It reared up with it's hood flared just daring somebody to move. Finally, another guy gained his wits enough to blow it away with a shotgun. Another snake was the bamboo viper. This was also called a 2 Step, because that's about how many you would take before you were dead from it's bite. There were also pythons. One of the icons of the Vietnam bush was the Phuck You Lizards. These were heavy bodied lizards about a foot or more in length. They got their name from the noise [call] that they made. I'm not making this up.

Another critter that is in the memories of many Viet Vets are the rats. Some of these were as big as cats. These guys were everywhere. From out in the bush to living in your bunker or hootch with you. They were often quite bold, too. It wasn't uncommon to see Vietnamese kids or babies with part of a nose or an ear nibbled off by these big buggers. I have a good rat story I'll tell in another post sometime.

I saw several types of monkeys in the trees. Also fruit bats as they hung upside down sleeping in the trees. These were about the size of a small terrier, with a 5-6ft. wing span.

Although I never saw one, thank God, there were tigers. I did see some paw prints once. There are a few documented incidents of soldiers being attacked and dragged off by tigers. I don't know if any were killed. This is where Tiger Force, the recon platoon for 1/327 of the 101st, got it's name. Not long after they got in-country, one of their members was attacked by a tiger.

So it wasn't just Charlie that we had to watchout for, but most of the critters and creepy-crawlies, also. Not to mention the weather [one trooper in my company died of heat stroke] and the terrain [a trooper in another company drowned while crossing a river]. No, not a very hospitable place.

[Bombardier]

Thanks for that buddy, its crazy isnt it? that people who have never been to war believe that the only bad thing a soldier has to put up with is the enemy, they forget things like the lethality of the local wildlife and climate/terrain. I have never served in an enviroment like that and hope I never have to.

Another snake was the bamboo viper. This was also called a 2 Step, because that's about how many you would take before you were dead from it's bite

Strange?, this is what I call my wife. LOL lolb;

[Zofo]

Snakes and rats the size of cats. Christ, I would NOT be good in Vietnam - either that or I'd have no ammunition left! I've heard of an"Argh ****" cactus - those lizards must have been awesome! Thanks for these posts, they are great reading!

[Frisco-Kid]

KILLING RATS, SIR.

A couple of weeks after arriving in the Central Highlands NW of Kontum, we move into an area that was an abandoned ARVN artillery firebase. We're told that we're going to run Search and Destroy patrols from here for at least several days, so to get comfortable. The site already has a well cleared perimeter, so will be easy to secure and defend. As the arty unit pulled out they had blown all of the bunkers, so we had to dig fighting holes to live in for the time that we would be there.

As everybody sets to digging their holes and getting them as comfortable as possible, a buddy and myself find a blown bunker that hasn't been completely destroyed. We decide to put our energy into trying to make this livable, and we spend most of the day doing so. After some sandbag repair and getting some from other places, and using our shelter halves as part of the roof, we have a pretty nice set-up. Something that we can get ourselves and all of our gear into, and stay pretty much dry. Good thing, because it starts to rain that afternoon.

Sometime around midnight, I come off of perimeter guard and settle into our bunker for the rest of the night. I'm beat. It seems like I had just got to sleep when I'm awakened by my buddy thrashing around and cussing. I strike my Zippo and ask, "What the Hell's the matter?"

"RATS," he replies, and his eyes are as big as golf balls.He says that a weight on his chest woke him up and when he went to feel what it was, he latched on to a "BIG ASSED RAT!"
"I'm outta here," he says. "Where there's one, there's more."

Having a real aversion to rats, I agree. We move our gear out of the bunker into the light rain that's falling. I grab the shelter halves so we have something to keep us dry. Before I know what's happening, my buddy says "F***ERS," and rolls a grenade into the bunker!

Well, all Hell breaks loose! The whole perimeter starts firing towards the treeline. Some hand flares go up, and somebody blows some Claymores. It's several minutes before they realize that nobody is shooting back. After things settle down, my buddy and I decide to move back into the bunker. The grenade didn't damage it too bad.

About 10 minutes later the CO shows up, and he's pissed!
"What are you two dumbsh*ts doing?", he yells.

My buddy speaks right up and says, "It was me. I was killing rats, Sir."

"RATS! RATS!," he yells almost maniacly. Then he commences to give us what was probably the worst ass-chewing that I ever received in the Army. He ends it by telling my buddy that he's going to give him an Article 15. We quietly laugh at each other after he leaves. We're not bothered by any more rats.

About four days later we leave the old firebase for a Christmas stand down near the city of Kontum. My buddy never gets the Article 15. He's killed in an ambush 31DEC66. He was 21 years old.

[Bombardier]

About four days later we leave the old firebase for a Christmas stand down near the city of Kontum. My buddy never gets the Article 15. He's killed in an ambush 31DEC66. He was 21 years old.

sal; R.I.P.

sounds like he was a real fun guy to bivvy up with frisco.

[rotorwash]

Hey Frisco, if you want to see a map of the old AO, go to my unit's website and go to "Maps" from the main menu. Also the A Shau. www.174ahc.org Sorry, these are flyboy type maps, might take some getting used to.

Rotorwash

[Frisco-Kid]

Rotorwash

Nice site. I knew I'd seen those SHARK gunships somewhere else. The 101st was in Tuy Hoa from mid-JUL66 to the end of NOV66. I think the 2/327 was back there for most of MAR67.

AMERICAL: Yeah, my mistake. I thought the 199th LIB was thrown in there, too. The Americal was formed up after I DEROSed. When I returned with the 3rd Bde. of the 82nd Abn. Div. in FEB68, we landed in Chu Lai. That was my first and only contact with them. We didn't stay long. We had to use some of their vehicles to convoy ourselves north.

MY LAI: This took place in MAR68. Because of the Army cover-up, I didn't hear about it until after I was out of the Army. When I first heard about it, I remember being pissed at the Army. I had the impression that Calley was being made a scapegoat and was being railroaded. He was, to a certain extent. As it unfolded, I could see that he was guilty as sin and deserved anything that he got. He shouldn't have been the only one, though.

[rotorwash]

We worked with the Koreans around Tuy Hoa Mar 67. They were great troops, after a long day in lousy weather they would bring huge platters of fried eggs, bacon and toast - bring it to our hootch!

One time I was one of two aircraft sent to make a logistical move of two comanies across a river. On our first trip in, the Koreans locked and loaded on final and before we knew it we were on a two ship CA with no gun cover and the LZ was hot! After we were unloaded we went to altitiude and screamed bloody murder over our radios. On the next trip in, the Koreans had obviously removed any threat, they had stacked arms on the beach and were swimming in the river. We felt somewhat sheepish for complaining.

Another time near Phan Rang we were trying to locate a small patrol that had been isolated and needed resupply. On board we had a Korean LT on his radio trying to get directions. After an hour or so of boring holes in the sky and making several approaches to non existing LZ's, the LT asked us to fly back to the base camp. When we got there, the sergeant that had been giving us directions ran up to the aircraft. The LT, although bent double standing in the aircraft, delivered a handsome soccer kick to the sergeant's head. The sergeant recovered, snapped to attention and marched back to the side of the aircraft. The LT bent down and said something to the sergeant and we took off again. This time we had no trouble finding the patrol.

Ah, the cobwebs of a feeble mind.

Rotorwash

[Bombardier]

The LT, although bent double standing in the aircraft, delivered a handsome soccer kick to the sergeant's head.

Ahh see you could not do that nowadays, the military accross the globe and including the brits has gone soft. :evil:

[rotorwash]

You are probably correct, but I would hope the Koreans still have the spit and vinegar I remember them for. I can remember taking off from Ninh Hoa and seeing an entire battalion on the parade ground practicing Tae Kwando before breakfast.

By the way, when we moved the unit across the river, they even brought their jars of kimshi, a delicacy made of cabbage and other veggies buried in the ground until fully ripe. When they loaded it on the aircraft, I elected to sit out on the gun mount until they had it unloaded. Anybody tough enough to eat that crap is, in my book, one tough hombre.

RW

[Frisco-Kid]

My VERY Best Time In Vietnam

By OCT66 we were still operating around Tuy Hoa. We'd been there since mid-JUL. I've developed some kind of a jungle rot. It's open, ulcerated sores. Some of them are about the size of a quarter [about 1 1/4"]. They're everywhere that my equipment and clothes are tight fitting. On my back where my ruck sits; on my chest and shoulders where the straps of my ruck are; around my waist where my web belt is. Every time I get wet from the rain, crossing a river, or laying in a rice paddy, the pain is excruciating. The platoon medic, after trying everything that his limited resources allows, takes pity on me and sends me to the battalion hospital to let them take a look at it. They decide that I need to see a dermatologist. I'm sent back down to our main base camp at Phan Rang. They cut me some orders and put me on a C-130 that's headed for Tan Son Nhut, near Saigon.

From there I'm taken to a HOTEL in downtown Saigon. I'm told it's a transient barracks used by personnel that are just temporarily in Saigon. I showed up with my M-16 and a couple of mags for it. They make me turn them in to be put in their armory and tell me they'll be returned upon my departure. I do it, but I'm pretty uncomfortable about it. They tell me that I can't be out and about in uniform. All personnel that are stationed in Saigon have to wear civvies when out in public while off duty. You can't wear fatigues in bars, restaurants, etc.. I explain that I don't have any. All I brought was a couple of pairs of jungle fatigues, socks, and toiletries. They say, "Okay". Just make sure that I have a copy of my orders on me at all times in case I'm stopped by the MPs. They then give me a book of "chits" to be used for meals while I'm here. They have a mess hall and dining room on the premises. They also have several military clubs around the city that the chits can be used at for food.

They then give me a room number. I'm on the 4th floor. I take the elevator up and find the room. It's set up for 2 people. It has a bunkbed in it, two wardrobe-type closets with a drawer in the bottom, a table and chairs. It has a ceiling fan. There's a door that goes out onto a small balcony that overlooks the street. It has a half-bath in the room; a sink with mirror and medicine cabinet, and a toilet. It has HOT and cold running water! The shower is a communal one down the hall. JESUS! I'm in heaven. I never do have a room mate.

The hospital that I'm supposed to go to is about 2miles away. I'm told that I can catch a military bus out front that will take me there, or take civilian tranportation; a taxi or a cyclo, either pedal powered or motorized. I take the bus. When I get there and check in, I meet with a dermatologist who examines me. The sores are already getting better just by not wearing all my equipment and staying dry and clean. He says that he doesn't exactly know what it is, which makes me a little nervous. He puts on some sort of heavy-duty antibiotic salve, gives me some to take with me, and tells me to come back in 3 days. The rest of the time is mine. To make a long story short, this is how my hospital visits went. He tried salves, powders, and shots. He eventually found a salve that seemed to knock it out. I spent a total of 2wks. in Saigon, and 3wks. out of the field.

So, here I am. 19yrs. old, with about 2mos. worth of pay in my pocket, fresh out of the jungles and rice paddies, with all of this time on my hands. LET THE PARTY BEGIN! I spend the rest of the time drinking at the EM club near the hotel [they had some pretty good floor shows], sometimes playing the slots [I hit an $80 jackpot]; barhopping through the bars on Tu Do St. [one of the main drags for bars] and Cholon [a chinese suburb of Saigon]; and spending the night with bar girls [for a fee]. It was like turning the rat loose in the cheese factory roc; .

One afternoon, after being in town about 10 days, I go into a bar on Tu Do St. for a beer. A guy in civvies is the only other person in the bar. He calls me over to his table and we start to talk. He's sitting wth one of the bar girls buying her "Saigon Tea", an over-priced shot glass of tea that the girls drink. She will keep you company for as long as you buy her the drinks. Another of the girls joins me in our booth.

It turns out that this guy is a paratrooper from the 173rd Abn. Bde., and he's supposed to be in Taipei for R&R. It seems that he sneaked into Saigon before his plane left, got drunk, and missed his flight. He decided to make Saigon his R&R. Technically, he's AWOL. He's been spending his nights shacked up with bar girls each night. All Americans had an 10:00PM curfew. He had been with one for about 3 days, but she had kicked him out that morning.

After sitting there drinking for a couple of hours, this guy is getting pretty drunk. He started a couple of hours before I ran into him. I'm feeling pretty good, myself. Pretty soon this guy gets into an arguement the bar girl that he's with over her bugging him for the Saigon Tea. She gets mad and calls him a "Number F**kin' 10 G.I." and a "Cheap Charlie". He call her a b**ch and punches her out! She flys out of the booth, sprawled on the floor, out like a light.

Well, LET THE FIGHT BEGIN! The next thing I know, all the girls and the bartender of the place are throwing everything they can get their hands on at us; beer bottles, ashtrays, shot glasses, etc.. We start throwing stuff back; chairs, barstools, tables. We're trying to make it to the door. I grab a chair to use as a shield, and 173rd grabs the unconscious girl that he punched out! We make it to the door, only to find out that it's been locked from the outside. Alot of these bars have a kid sitting outside as a lookout for MPs, open the door for customers, etc.. After a minute of some combat at the door, the bartender yells to the kid to unlock it. 173rd drops the girl and I throw my chair over the bar, breaking the big mirror behind it. We're out the door.

Once out on the street, I notice that 173rd is WIA. He's been hit above the eye by a shot glass or something. His face is covered in blood. We run around the corner into another bar. I take him into the bathroom and start to wash him up. He has blood all down the front of his shirt. He really looks a mess. But, like most facial wounds, it's not as bad as it looks. He has a cut that probably should have 3-4 stitches above his eyebrow.

As I'm working on the cut, there's somebody banging LOUD on the bathroom door. "OPEN UP! MILITARY POLICE"! I guess every Vietnamese on the street led them right to us. I open the door and a BIG MP sticks a .45 in my face. We raise our hands and are taken out onto the street. They handcuff us and put us in a jeep. We're taken to the Provost Marshall's and put in a cell. After awhile, they take me out. They tell me that since I have orders authorizing me to be in Saigon, they're going to cut me loose. However, a full report will be sent to my unit. I'd better not have anymore run-ins with them the rest of the time in Saigon. I assure them that I won't. Because 173rd is supposed to be where he isn't, they keep him. I never see him again.

I leave Saigon about 4 days later. When I get back up-country to my unit, I go to the CP to check in with my CO. He's got a BIG grin on his face. "Well, trooper. I hear you had quite a good time in Saigon". "Yes, Sir", I say guardedly. He commences to tell me that I'm going to get an Article 15 out of it. But, because he found it to have all been done in good Airborne Tradition, it was only going to cost me my half of the damages...$150. He said it's a paratroopers duty to tear up a bar once in awhile box; .

So that was my VERY best time in Vietnam, and I got an Article 15 to prove it lolb; .

[Bombardier]

He commences to tell me that I'm going to get an Article 15 out of it. But, because he found it to have all been done in good Airborne Tradition, it was only going to cost me my half of the damages...$150. He said it's a paratroopers duty to tear up a bar once in awhile

Excellent Co and man mangement, I like it. And he is damn right too. :mrgreen:

[DMZ-LT]

Feel like I just hit the first rally point and I might make it after all. Pleased to be here and miss a lot of the "old" guys. I served as a Platoon Leader of a Cavalry Platoon in Viet Nam 70 -71. Biggest Operation was Lam Son 719 we drove from the coast to the border of Laos and then ARVN passed through us into Laos. They got their asses kicked and came running out and we fought a rear guard. Lost a lot of people. They say we killed 20,000 NVA in a little over 2 months. Welcome Home Bro's. I feel like I served with the best of my generation. I just became an Opa 6 months ago and it is the best thing I could be but everyday I think of all the guys who never got the chance. Survivors guilt the VA tells me. Peace in your hearts y'll

[exlrrp]

I HEARD this story all ready!!
Those dang paratroopers were always getting into trouble!!
See ya when I get back from Europe, Tommy
"Oh I never been to Spaaaaaiiiiin but I kinda like the muuuuuusic
They say the ladies are insane there,and they sure know how to use it"

yr bro
James

[Pegasus]

Very interesting readin troops, thank you :D

[DMZ-LT]

My Squadrons Commander was named Osborn so of course to us troops he became The Wizard of OZ. his Command Post The Emerald City and the road to it became The Yellow Brick Road. We rotated platoons every couple of days to guard it. When my turn came I asked him how he wanted me to deploy the platoon. He snarled at me and said " Your the #*#@* platoon leader LT. , you figure it out. But if we get hit tonight at first light tomorrow when I look out I better see your body on the wire between me and the dead NVA " We didn't get hit that night but I never went to sleep guarding the OZ

[tosh66]

Did the author and ex vet Philip Caputo have it right?

[rotorwash]

He was a Marine LT so he knew what he was talking about, but don't make the mistake of thinking that just because he relates autrocities stories every unit in Vietnam committed them. Even the legendary cutting off of ears was considered an autrocity by our laws, although to the Montagnards it was a religious belief. If you cut off the ears the soul would wander without rest until it found the missing parts. It was pretty freaky to be handed a string of human ears as your were taking off but the yard just wanted you to take them far, far away.

Rotorwash

[tosh66]

Fair play, although give Caputo his due, he does state that 90% of the time nothing happened. Maybe, then that was partly the reason for such aggressive retaliation.

[rotorwash]

Maybe, it would stand to reason. In the area I was in the troops were frustrated by Charlie breaking contact and retreating behind booby traps. The problem with booby traps is you only get one chance to make a mistake. I think this is what brought on My Lai, my company inserted that unit that day. They also were not very well disciplined, not nearly as well as Marines. The standards set by small unit leaders has a lot to do with the behavior of the troops and when you rotate troops and officers like we did you have a hard time keeping quality leaders around.

RW

[Frisco-Kid]

31DEC66


We've been back out in the field for 2 days after a 6 day Christmas stand down near Kontum City in the Central Highlands. We're back to doing S&D patrols west of Kontum.

About 3hrs. into the day's hump, we're hit by an ambush from a nearby hill. It turns into a pretty intense gunfight for about an hour, when the clouds lift enough to get a couple gunships in to light up Charlie. We have 1 KIA and 4-5 WIA, and we drop back and secure an LZ to get the dead and wounded out. We get them out just as the clouds drop and shrouds the mountains in the eerie mists of The Highlands again. The company moves up the hill that we got hit from and we have a couple of running shootouts with the NVA, but we never really close with them. We move off the hill to setup a night laager position. We have a peaceful night.

On this thread I posted a story titled "KILLING RATS, SIR." The paratrooper killed that day was the one in the bunker with me. This is why he never got the Article 15. His name was Jarel Ayers and he was from Lamar, MO. He'd been in the company about 3mos., and was a good guy. He was 21yrs. old when he died. This day was a hint of things to come in the next few days.


1JAN67

We move back up the hill, pretty much determined to kick some NVA butt for yesterday. Arty had softened it up some during the night. A&B companies are at the bottom of the hill as a blocking force. There's a steady rain and the clouds are really low. A scarey place as we enter some of the thicker jungle. You just know they're out there. It's some thick sh!t and the going is slow. 1st Lt. Earls is taking it pretty cautious. He's only been with us for about a month, but he's been doing a pretty good job.

Late morning one of the pointmen makes contact with a couple of trail watchers. The rest of the day is spent in hit and run shootouts with the bad guys. We don't take any casualties, but we find 2 enemy dead and a couple blood trails through the day. Just short of the top, it all stops. They're just gone. That always kind of amazed me how they could do that.

In late afternoon, they decide to keep us on the hill for the night. We setup a night perimeter and dig in for the night. It hasn't stopped raining all day, and we're miserable and dog-tired. We've been running on little sleep for days and the up-hill fight has really whittled us down. Plus, you just know it's going to be one of those cold-assed Central Highlands nights. Sh!t.

[rotorwash]

Oh yeah, I know about those cold Central Highland nights. Not fun. Good post, Tom.

[Frisco-Kid]

2JAN67

Just as I thought, we're chilled to the bone when the sun goes down. I do a turn on perimeter guard and the chattering of my teeth is probably the only thing that kept me awake. This would become my scariest night of the war.

In the wee hours of the morning of 2JAN67 I'm laying huddled together with 3 other guys for warmth, trying to get some sleep. On the farthest end from me is a trooper I don't remember; then there's Goshorn, me, and Kohr on the other end. It seems like I just dozed off when all Hell breaks loose. At about 3-4:00AM the NVA came back for their freakin' hill.

I'm awakened by gunfire and explosions. Instinctively, I roll over in a prone position, my weapon at the ready, trying to decipher what's going on. Goshorn, on my left, sits up and he's immediately shot in the throat. He's dead before he falls over. Kohr, on the otherside of me, has jumped up and he's shot in both legs. It's pandemonium with the shooting, exploding, yelling, and screaming. All this happens in just a few seconds.

Some trip and hand flares go up and illuminates the place in an eerie light. Someone yells, "They're inside the perimeter," and sure enough, I see NVA soldiers running amongst us shooting. I shoot 1 of them not 8' away from me. About 30' down the perimeter to my left I see 2 NVA come inside the perimeter. I drop 1 of them, and someone from inside the perimeter shoots the other one and moves up to plug the hole. Someone blows a Claymore near me and I just keep spraying the area to the front of me. The flares go out and I can still hear shooting and yelling behind me, inside the perimeter. Jaysus, I'm scared.

Despite the weather, a chopper shows up dropping flares. I think there were some gunships, but they can't do much with Charlie right on top of us. I think they were shooting into the jungle well beyond our perimeter. The shooting inside the perimeter dies down, but now we're taking some RPGs. Jaysus, I hate RPGs. I'm needing somemore mags. I get some off of a dead trooper about 30' behind me.

As it starts to become daylight, the weather cooperates and somemore gunships show up. The other 2 companies have started to move up the hill, closing on us. Things start to die down. Christ, I can't believe I'm not dead or shot to ****. I'm one of the lucky ones. When all the smoke clears, we have 7 KIA and 18-20 WIA in my company. One of the dead is our CO, 1st Lt. Earls.


The paratroopers to die that morning were:

1st Lt. Larry Earls
Murfreesboro, TN
Age: 28

PFC Walter Goshorn
Mifflintown, PA
Age: 19

PFC Elmer Juckett
W. Palm Beach, FL
Age: 19

PFC Wilbur Kohr [He bled to death from his GSWs to his legs]
Fredrickburg, PA
Age: 19

PFC Dennis Nicola
Champaign, IL
Age: 19

Sp/4 John O'Brien
Butte Falls, OR
Age: 21

PFC Norman Vincent
Duluth, MN
Age: 19


Rendevouz With Destiny, Brothers

[Frisco-Kid]

When The Lieutenant Was A Sniper:


One day in the mountains near Tuy Hoa in '66, my platoon is coming down this trail and we hear a gong sounding. The platoon leader stops us and tells me and another guy to come with him. We follow the sound and discover it's an old man in a nearby ville banging the gong. We realize that this guy is signaling our presence to Charlie.
"That son-of-a-bitch is probably setting us up for an ambush," the Lt. says.
He then sits with his back to a tree and draws a bead on the old man with his M-16. He drops him with one shot at about 100yds. The enemy wasn't always armed at the time that we had to kill them. This was an enemy agent, and the killing was justified. Just a brutal reality of war.

[rotorwash]

Yep. Ya gonna dance, ya gotta pay the fiddler.

[Frisco-Kid]

Operations


At the end of your tour, the 101st gave you a certificate stating how many operations you participated in and how many days you were in the field.

While I served with the 101st from JUN66-JUN67, I took part in 11 combat operations. These were Search and Destroy-type operations. During this time, the 101st consisted of just 1 brigade, the 1st Brigade, which was made up of 3 infantry battalions; 1/327, 2/327, and 2/502. During this time the brigade was used as a Reactionary Force by Westmoreland, moving us all over the country. Most of the time we were in II Corps, but we were also near Phan Thiet in NE III Corps, and in the Duc Pho area in southern I Corps. Sometimes the brigade was split up, fighting in different AOs at the same time.

The operations that I participated in were:

Operation Beauregard in Dak To. I got there at the end of the operation, but soon enough to see my first KIA in my company.

Operations John Paul Jones, Seward, and Geronimo in the Tuy Hoa area from late JUL66-1DEC66. Tuy Hoa is about half way between Qui Nhon and Nha Trang on the Coastal Plains.

Operation Pickett W/NW of Kontum. When we were moved from Tuy Hoa to Kontum, it was the first time in the war that an entire brigade had been moved from one place to another in less than 48hrs.. We were in the Kontum area from 2DEC66-late JAN67.

Operation Farragut in the mountains west of Phan Rang. Phan Rang was the HQ for the 101st. This was the first time since I'd been with them, that we returned to Phan Rang. The operation lasted 6 days.

Operations Gataling I and Gataling II ran from 1FEB67-end of MAR67. During this time we were sent to Bao-Loc in the southern Central Highlands; Phan Thiet about 100mi. due east of Saigon near the coast in III Corps; Di Linh about 60mi. due west of Phan Rang in the Highlands; and Song Mao between Phan Rang and Phan Thiet near the coast. We were in these AOs for only 10-14 days. During this time, 2/327 spent most of MAR67 back in the Tuy Hoa area.

Operation Summerall was from the end of MAR67-the end of APR67 in the mountains NW of Nha Trang, about half way to Ban Me Thuot.

Operations Malheur I and Malheur II were held in the mountains west of Duc Pho in southern I Corps, and later down in the Song Ve and the Crow's Foot Valleys in the Duc Pho area. This was the first operation after we were combined with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade and the 3rd Brigade of the 25 ID [later redesignated as 3rd Bde. of 4th ID] to form Task Force Oregon. Malheur I ran from the end of APR67-first part of JUN67; Malheur II from first part of JUN67-first part of AUG67 [?]. I DEROS'd the end of JUN67. Malheur I was, once again, all three battalions doing a CA into the mountains in a 2 day period. The first day the 1/327 and 2/502 CA'd into the mountains, with the 2/327 coming in the next day as a blocking force.

[Bombardier]

I got there at the end of the operation, but soon enough to see my first KIA in my company

I think the common saying is "Dont mean nothing" Frisco. :roll:

[Bill Farnie]

These are the Ops I remember or know only because they are from AAR's I have

When I first got to my company they were already a part of Operation Toan Thang Phase II which lasted, for us until September 26th 1968 when we went back to Phouc Vinh for Operation Golden Sword which was the move up to I Corp to join the 1st and 2nd Brigades. Op Toan Thang was a 25th Infantry Division operation and we were somewhere between Cu Chi and Trang Bang...I think.

When we got to Camp Eagle on October 2nd we immediately became involved in Operation Nevada Eagle which had been going on in I Corp since May 17th 1968 and lasted until February 28th 1969. We mostly operated southwest of Hue in the "rolling hill country". We moved again the first week of November to Camp Evans to replace the 1st Cav. We did RIF's and ambushes that were run out of Evans until mid December when all of the men who came to VN with the 3rd Brigade in December 67' had DEROS'ed and we got enough replacements to function as a company, although we were never at full strength my whole tour.
We were in Operations Rawlings Valley – December 16th to the 23 and Operation Todd Forest – December 31st to January 13 which were both sub- operations of Nevada Eagle.

On March 1st 1969 Operation Kentucky Jumper started and was still going on when I left VN at the end of August. We were in Operations Bristol Boots in the Ruong Ruong Valley – April 25th to May 8th, Apache Snow in the A Shau Valley – May 10th to June 7th and Montgomery Rendezvous also in the A Shau – June 8th until my DEROS. All of these ops were sub-operations of Kentucky Jumper.

I'm sure that I'm missing some others......

[Frisco-Kid]

Our Friendly Allies

During our 5 day Christmas ['66] stand-down at Kontum City, there was also an ARVN Airborne unit nearby. Some of us had made a practice jump with them. During the stand-down most of us got a chance to get into town for a little I&I [Intercoarse and Intoxication]. It was inevitable that us and the ARVN paratroopers would wind up in the same bar/cat house at times. I guess there were several incidents of fights breaking out between the two groups of paratroopers. For the most part, these were pretty much just some pushing and shoving with the occasional fist fight.

All but one of them. This was told to me later by a friend of mine, Sp/4 Jimmy McC. He was a member of our LRRP detachment. He and Sgt. Victor C., another LRRP, had gone into town and were sitting in a small bar drinking Ba Moui Ba [33], the local beer. There were a couple of the bar girls trying to work them for some Saigon Tea, an outrageously priced watered-down drink. One of the girls was sitting on Sgt. C's lap when 3 drunk ARVNs walked in. One of them was a Lt. who took offense to the girl sitting on the Sgt's lap, so he jerked her away and started slapping her around. Sgt. Vic stood up and started to say something when the Lt. pulled a U.S. Army .45, cocked it, and held it to his head while the other two paratroopers took turns giving him butt strokes to his face with their U.S. M-1 carbines. The Lt. finished it off with smacking the Sgt. in the face with the pistol, then sent the 2 Lurps packing. Jimmy went to another bar looking for some other GIs, but Sgt. Vic went back to camp and got his ass-kicking gear and walked back to the bar.

When he entered, the ARVNs were really laughing it up, and they really started laughing when Vic walked in. The Lt. made the REALLY stupid mistake of going for his .45; the Sgt. shot him through the forehead. He shot and killed the other two as they went for their weapons. The only tragic part of the shooting was that one of the rounds went through an ARVN and struck a bar girl in the head, killing her instantly.

All of us that heard about this felt that the ARVNs got what they deserved. I guess most of the brass did, too. The Sgt. was only tried for manslaughter for the death of the prostitute. He was sent to Leavenworth for awhile but I don't remember for how long, if I ever knew at all.

So, did any of you ever have run-ins with your allies? Any of those other countries you were training with, or doing joint operations with?

[Bombardier]

I remember when I was what was known as a 'custodian driver' in germany. my responsibility was to drive the american nuke specialists around. On one particular day we were driving down an autobahn towards Koln I think when the PFC sat in the front passenger seat started to explain to me how good the M16 that he was carrying was, Of course not to be out done I explained to him how good my SLR 7.62 was and that the M16 was crap :shock: in comparison.
Now the PFC in question was about 6ft 2" tall and probably the same wide and he took exception to my derogatory comments about his rifle.
The PFC grabbed me by the throat while I was still driving I might add and began to squeeze, at that point I slammed my breaks on which caused the PFC to let go of my throat and I swerved to the emergency lane of the autobahn. I got out of the Landrover and ran around to the passenger door with the intention of putting up my dukes with the PFC. When I opened the door he fell out onto the road, seems when I slammed my breaks on his head hit the windscreen it knocked him out. :D

Of course when he awoke I attempted somewhat unsuccesfully to pursuade him that I had knocked him out.

hel; box; army;

[rotorwash]

Whatever works in a pinch, right?

[Bill Farnie]

Frisco,
Seems a case of self-defense as far as the ARVN’s go so I don’t see how he could have been brought up on charges for zappin’ them but what a shame about the bar girl.

Bomber,
“seems when I slammed my breaks on his head hit the windscreen it knocked him out.”
LMAOROTF Bomber….I bet if you planned on slamming on the breaks to have him smash his head into the windshield it wouldn’t have happened.


I guess you could call these two incidents run-ins.

When the 3rd Brigade of the 101st first moved to Camp Evans from Camp Eagle in November 1968, my company at times, would provide security for the engineers who every morning would sweep Highway 1 for mines from Evans northwards to a bridge over a river at the border of Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces which was the turn around point for us. This bridge was guarded by a USMC CAP (Combined Action Platoon) and one morning, and I can’t remember what exactly triggered this, but some of the Vietnamese of the CAP and my platoon got into an argument. Things got pretty heated when one of the Vietnamese pulled out a frag and pulled the pin. There was a lot of shouting in both Vietnamese and English and rifles brought to the ready and aimed at the CAP members and just when it looked like the gunfight at the O.K. Corral was about to erupt, the Marine Lt. and his Vietnamese counter part who commanded the CAP talked to the Vietnamese and things calmed down. We were absolutely ready to light them up if we were fired upon. I’m glad it didn’t come to that for they were in fighting positions and we were standing out in the open on QL-1 and at a definite disadvantage.

The second time also involved Vietnamese troops but this time ARVN’s. My battalion CA’ed with a battalion from the 1st ARVN Division to the foothills that were at the junction of the Song O Lau and Song My Chanh rivers as a blocking force as other 3rd Brigade 101st Abn and ARVN units made a sweep against the 6th NVA Regiment westward to where we setup on the river banks. This operation was called Ohio Rapids III.

My company had setup, on line, in the tree line of the west bank of the Song My Chanh with OP’s on the opposite side of the river acting like trail watchers. We were trying to use our best noise discipline when an ARVN company just came diddy bopping towards us along the river and started to throw grenades into the river as a form of fishing. It did work, for fish were floating to the top of the river, but their actions pretty much blew any chance of catching any fleeing enemy units who may have come towards us so our platoon leader, Lt. Gowin with his RTO in tow, ripped into the ARVN’s and their American liaison officer. The arguing got louder and louder and the ARVN’s surrounded our Lt. and his RTO radioed that he was getting a little concerned for their safety. We came out from the tree line and Brian Rapp, a 60 gunner, fired a burst into the river near enough to the cluster f**k and got everyone’s attention and for a moment it looked like all hell was going to break loose but the ARVN’s decided to back off, either from our show of force or the fact that cooler heads prevailed on both sides and another situation that could have been real ugly was averted.

[Bombardier]

Bomber,
“seems when I slammed my breaks on his head hit the windscreen it knocked him out.”
LMAOROTF Bomber….I bet if you planned on slamming on the breaks to have him smash his head into the windshield it wouldn’t have happened

Yeah buddy your right. I was bloody lucky though he was a big big man. I doubt I would have been typing this today if he had not been Ko'd. :P

[Zofo]

Anyone who served in Germany will know that you didn't need allies to fight, the Brits fought each other!
I've escaped a kicking in our local bar from the local inf. regt. - rescued by a mate from that gang.
I've been chased by another inf gang through the local park (5 to 2) only to be "rescued" by a mob of our lot who were waiting for crows like me to get chased!
There are a 1000 separate incidents like this in every garrison town I'm sure!

[Frisco-Kid]

Frisco,
Seems a case of self-defense as far as the ARVN’s go so I don’t see how he could have been brought up on charges for zappin’ them but what a shame about the bar girl.

Him going all the way back to camp and returning armed could have made a good case for premeditated murder. Everybody was glad the brass didn't construe it as such. The sgt. was lucky.




Zofo Wrote: "Anyone who served in Germany will know that you didn't need allies to fight, the Brits fought each other!
I've escaped a kicking in our local bar from the local inf. regt. - rescued by a mate from that gang.
I've been chased by another inf gang through the local park (5 to 2) only to be "rescued" by a mob of our lot who were waiting for crows like me to get chased!
There are a 1000 separate incidents like this in every garrison town I'm sure!"

That's a true story, Bud. While I was stateside with the 82nd, every Friday and Saturday night in Fayetteville, NC, was like Dodge City in the old west. What with the 82nd, 1st [?] SF Group, the SF training center, and the basic training unit, etc., there was alot of testostorone in town on weekends. I had some adventures there that rivaled VN.

One Saturday afternoon me and a couple of buddies are sitting in a bar drinking a couple of beers. We're sitting at the bar, near the door. Suddenly the door bursts open and a guy rushes in, comes up to my friend, and sticks an Army .45 in his face! As his eyes adjust to the darkened bar, he says "Oh. You're not the guy." He goes back out the door and, about 2min. later, empties the pistol in a guy out on the sidewalk. The guy doing the shooting was a Staff Sargeant. The other guy was a Sp/4 that was banging his wife. He not only killed this guy, but he shaved about 20yrs. off my friend's.

[Frisco-Kid]

13MAY67

Two days before, as part of the newly formed Task Force Oregon, 2/502 [me] and 1/327, 101st Abn. Div., do a CA into the mountains west of Duc Pho, kicking off Operation Malheur I. The next day 2/327 CAs in as a blocking force. Our mission was to do a Search and Destroy on the VC/NVA forces, and to locate and neutralize their basecamps. These mountains are a long time stronghold. We make contact almost immediately.

On 13MAY67 my company is moved to another area by helicoptor. The LZ is a small one and can only take 2-3 choppers at a time. I'm on the 2nd chopper. The first 2 bring us in and hovers about 5' off the ground, and we jump off. As the 2 choppers lifts off and the 3rd one starts to come in, Charlie opens up on us and the chopper. We rush the tree line trying to get to cover and to secure the LZ. The chopper is brought down by small arms fire with a crash. I don't know how far it fell; I was pretty busy. After a short, fierce gunfight, and with the help of the door gunners on the choppers, Charlie breaks contact.

In the initial attack, two of us guys on the ground were wounded. The guys on the chopper are banged up pretty good; a couple of them seriously. In fact, there's one KIA on the chopper. I don't remember if he died from the crash or from a GSW. He was PFC Carl Konopa, a Navajo [?] from Arizona. He'd been with the company 8-9mos.. He was 18yrs. old.

[Reloader]

'To live in the hearts of those who love us and are left behind is not to die.'

Thank you to everyone who has shared their experiences in this thread. You have nothing to prove to anyone.

[Frisco-Kid]

'To live in the hearts of those who love us and are left behind is not to die.'

Thank you to everyone who has shared their experiences in this thread. You have nothing to prove to anyone.

Thank you, Reloader.

IF YOU ARE CAPTURED, I WILL COME FOR YOU. IF YOU ARE WOUNDED, I WILL CARRY YOU. AND IF YOU ARE KILLED, I WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER YOU.



16MAY67

In the mountains west of Duc Pho, Quang Ngai Province. We've been in the mountains 6 days, making contact almost daily. During a fire fight, Sp/4 John Silver, from Wadena, MN, is KIA. He'd been with the company about 6mos.. He was 20yrs. old.

[Frisco-Kid]

18MAY67

Our eighth day in the mountains west of Duc Pho. We make contact with Charlie at one of their base camps and a fierce firefight takes place for about an hour. They're dug in pretty good and we hit them with what LAWs we have. Finally, a couple Cobra gunships shows up and brings some serious pee on them. During the fight we have a couple WIA and one KIA. The KIA is a buddy, Sp/4 Stan Jamrozy. "Rosie" was from Louisville, KY. He was 20yrs. old.

His death was pretty hard to take by alot of us old guys. He got to the company a couple of weeks after I did. He was to DEROS in July. He was the shortest guy that I can remember being killed. He was also the last KIA in the company that I can recall before I DEROSED the end of June.

Rest In Peace, Rosie.

[Frisco-Kid]

The rest of the story:

During the firefight, the VC tried to flank us to the right. They ran into B company and got in a gunfight with them. B company took some casualties, also. By the time we were able to evacuate our casualties, it was dark. Here's what was going on over with B company.

Dale Eugene Wayrynen was awarded the Medal Of Honor [posthumously]

Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class, U.S. Army, Company B, 2d Battalion, 502d Infantry, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division. Place and Date: Quang Ngai, Province, Republic of Vietnam, 18 May 1967. Entered service at: Minneapolis, Minn. Born: 18 January 1947, Moose Lake, Minn.

Citation:
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Sp4c. Wayrynen distinguished himself with Company B, during combat operations near Duc Pho. His platoon was assisting in the night evacuation of the wounded from an earlier enemy contact when the lead man of the unit met face to face with a Viet Cong soldier. The American's shouted warning also alerted the enemy who immediately swept the area with automatic weapons fire from a strongly built bunker close to the trail and threw hand grenades from another nearby fortified position. Almost immediately, the lead man was wounded and knocked from his feet. Sp4c. Wayrynen, the second man in the formation, leaped beyond his fallen comrade to kill another enemy soldier who appeared on the trail, and he dragged his injured companion back to where the point squad had taken cover. Suddenly, a live enemy grenade landed in the center of the tightly grouped men. Sp4c. Wayrynen, quickly assessing the danger to the entire squad as well as to his platoon leader who was nearby, shouted a warning, pushed one soldier out of the way, and threw himself on the grenade at the moment it exploded. He was mortally wounded. His deep and abiding concern for his fellow soldiers was significantly reflected in his supreme and courageous act that preserved the lives of his comrades. Sp4c. Wayrynen's heroic actions are in keeping with the highest traditions of the service, and they reflect great credit upon himself and the U.S. Army.

That was a scary night. The VC had bunkers and fighting holes all over the place. After dark, we thought they were going to counter attack us at anytime. C company didn't make any contact that night, but I remember hearing the gunfire and explosions on our right flank when B company jumped these guys. I remember hearing about what Dale did the next day. Fuckin' amazing. You always heard about guys doing this, and saw it in alot of those war movies we grew up with in the '50s and '60s. Never thought I'd know anybody in a thousand years that would actually do it. Being quite the cynic by this time, I wondered if somebody didn't push some of these guys on the grenades sometimes. I'm sure that'd be the only way I would do something like that. From all the accounts I heard later though, this wasn't the case with Dale. He was a real Hero.

STRIKE FORCE, DALE.

[Bombardier]

Feck me !, what goes through your mind in that moment prior to leaping on a grenade ?. I cant imagine the strength of character this chap had and the total devotion he had to his buddies. I dont know if I would be able to sacrifice my life in that way?.
I salute you Dale Eugene Wayrynen .

Thanks for sharing this Frisco, like you I thought that this kind of sacrifice and bravery only existed in Hollywood.

sal;

[Frisco-Kid]

9JUN66

NW of Dak To was a Special Forces camp at a place called Toumorong. It was being besieged by the 24th NVA Regiment. Two battalions [1/327 & 2/502] of the 101st Airborne Division were sent to support them. This was Operation Hawthorne.

C company of the 2/502, commanded by Captain William Carpenter, was inserted on the morning of 9JUN66 to be a blocking force for the 327, which was sweeping in their direction. As Charlie Company was moving up a small hill, the forward platoon radioed Carpenter telling him that they could hear voices down in a small streambed. The platoon leader asked Carpenter if he wanted them to set up the blocking force or go get Charlie. He decided to engage Charlie. Well, it turned to $hit for them real quick. They had bit the tail of the 24th NVA Regiment. C company was immediately swarmed and almost overrun. They were spread out and had Charlie right on top of them. They were taking quite a few casualties. At the height of the battle, Carpenter made the decision to call in an airstrike on their position. The nearest planes to them were carrying napalm. The airstrike made the NVA disengage and bought Charlie Company some time. They were able to gather the wounded and setup a better defense perimeter. They kept the NVA at bay until part of the 327 and B company of the 502nd could come re-enforce them.

This battle made the tv news and newspapers back in the States. I remember hearing about it and thinking to myself "Watch me wind up in THAT unit." I landed in Nam on 30JUN66 and sent to the 101st the next day. After processing in and going through P-Training at Phan Rang, I was sent to Dak To to join my new company,......Charlie Company of the 2/502! That was 10JUL66. Two days later I saw my first KIA in my company. On the 15JUL66 we were pulling out of The Highlands headed for Tuy Hoa over on the coast.

The survivors of Toumorong would forever be known as "Carpenter's Crispy Critters." You gotta love grunt humor. As I began to settle into the company and hear the stories from the Crispy Critters, there were alot of mixed feelings about Carpenter's decision. Some of them thought he over reacted [there were troopers killed by the napalm], while others believed that he saved their lives. Like in most battles, it depended on where you were standing and where you were looking. Everybody's experience and perception can be widely different.

Our battalion commander, Hank 'Gunfighter" Emerson, put Carpenter in for the MOH, but was downgraded to a DSC. Our First Sergeant, Walter Sabalouski, was also awarded a DSC and a Silver Star for his actions that day. I stood at attention while General Westmoreland pinned them on both men.

[Bill Farnie]

14June69 FB Berchtesgarden Attacked

On the night of 14 June FB Berchtesgarden, located on the eastern lip of the high ground overlooking the A Shau Valley, was attacked by a force of enemy sappers, The units occupying and defending Fire Base Berchtesgarden (YD 423012) were the Command Post 2-327 Inf, recon/2-327 Inf, E Co (-) 2-327 with one platoon from B-2-327 Inf attached, B/1/506 (-), 3d Brigade Security Platoon, 3d Brigade Tactical Command Post, B/2-319 Artillery (105), C/2/11 Artillery (155)

At 140330 hours following several days of extensive reconnaissance, enemy sappers of C2 and C3 Company of the K-3 Battalion, 6th NVA Regiment initiated an attack on the fire base using RPG, SA fire, 82mm mortars and satchel charges, The enemy sappers penetrated the concertina wire after tying down the trip flares and headed for pre designated targets. Three avenues of approach were used; one from the northwest, one from the east, and one from the south across the VIP pad to the Brigade TOC.

Sfc. Angel M. Rosado, Jacksonville, Fla., was standing outside the CP of B/1/506th Inf. when he spotted a figure inside the barbed wire perimeter.
“Who are you?” Rosado challenged.
“Quan,” the figure replied.
Rosado yelled a warning and rushed the startled NVA, throwing him over the wire and down a 20 foot embankment. With that the battle spread quickly as other sappers infiltrated.

Sgt. Maj. Robert D. Bryson, Houston, Mo., the 3rd Brigade operations sergeant major, killed three sappers while on his way to the brigade TOC, then wounded a fourth. The enemy managed to crawl close enough to the entrance to throw a satchel charge through it. Col. Joseph B. Conmy brigade commander, was wounded in the blast.

The fighting bunkers and battalion command post were hit as was the
command post and complex of the 3d Brigade Headquarters. Throughout the attack an intensive barrage of 82mm mortar was directed at the 2-327
command post and bunker line until 0530 hours preventing these forces from reinforcing the Brigade command post.

Friendly artillery was employed from surrounding f'irebases to provide illumination, in addition to the support from Army Aviation and Air Force. As daylight approached, contact was broken as the enemy pulled back through the wire leaving behind thirty-three dead and three prisoner of war. From these prisoners it was determined that approximately ninety-six NVA had taken part in the attack. Friendly casualties were eleven killed and forty- seven wounded.

My company was put on alert to go help repel the attack. We didn't go, but as the RRF we sure did the following night when FSB Currahee was attacked.

[Bill Farnie]

Firebase Currahee Attacked 15June69


At 160125 June 15, 1969, an enemy sapper attack was launched against Fire Support Base Currahee located on the Floor of the A Shau Valley by approximately 200 NVA of the 29th Regiment, who had been decimated the month before on Dong Ap Bia.

Units occupying and defending the Fire Support Base were B, E, and Comrnand Post of 2-502, A/2-319 Artillery (105), B/2-11 Artillery (155), ARVN Artillery Battery (105), Metro Station, counter mortar radar section, and a pathfinder detachment.

The attack was triggered by the detection of one sapper who had penetrated the wire on the west side of the perimeter, The enemy was engaged with small arms fire and M-79’s. Immediately 81mm illumination was provided and direct fire from the l05mn artillery battery was used. At 0200 hours, 75 of the enemy began a series of attacks against the entire northwest side of the perimeter. Artillery engaged this activity with continuous direct fire and illumination, A flare ship was on station at 0230 hours to assist and at 0300 hours ARA Cobras were on station and were employed until 0630 hours. At 0440 hours the western portion of the perimeter came under attack using mortars for covering fire. Dco 1-506, the RRF, was employed to reinforce the bunker line by making a night combat assault into the firebase. At 0545 hours the northern portion of the perimeter was attacked and gunships were called to fire within 150 meters of the perimeter wire. This caused approximately 30 enemy to charge the wire firing RPG's. At 0500 hours an air re-supply of ammunition began to arrive and was delivered by 0730 hours, Total results were 54 NVA killed, 3 NVA prisoners of war, with only seven US wounded of which three were evacuated.

My company was the Ready Reaction Force (RRF) and that combat assault in the dead of night was one of the scariest times I had in VN. We were in our NDP in the boonies when we received the warning order to pack up and get to the nearest LZ for the CA. Needless to say our destination LZ was hot. My platoon was the first into the firebase and we came in while, as mentioned above, it was being mortared. My company deployed along the perimeter with my platoon reinforcing a part of the northern portion. When the NVA attacked our side, it was the first and only time I saw 105’s use direct fire. They used beehive rounds. After the attack was over, the dead NVA bodies in front of our position were riddled with the barbed hooks of the beehive rounds. The NVA never really had a chance and they were sitting ducks, so to speak, for with Currahee being on the flat floor of the A Shau Valley a very large field of fire was able to be cleared and the NVA had absolutely no cover.

Our CO ordered the company’s medics to bury the dead NVA. The senior medic, Richard Daniels, told him that he didn’t think it was such a good idea and we backed him up by telling the CO that the medics would be in the M-60’s field of fire in case the NVA weren’t done with us yet. Our CO reluctantly agreed and instead of the medics digging graves with D handled shovels, the 326th engineers dug a big hole and the bodies were bulldozed into it and covered. As luck would have it, an arm was sticking straight up in the air out of the mass grave and someone took the hand and shaped it into the one finger salute. GI humor, at its sickest.

[Bombardier]

As luck would have it, an arm was sticking straight up in the air out of the mass grave and someone took the hand and shaped it into the one finger salute. GI humor, at its sickest.

Yeah soldiers always find a way to deal with things. Made me laught though. sal;

[Frisco-Kid]

Great post, Bill. Never did a night CA, thank God. Did a few night patrols and returned to the perimeter in the dark after springing an ambush. Never liked moving around at night in the bush. "Charlie owns the night" wasn't just a saying, it was a true statement.

GI humor; you gotta love it. Always dark and maybe a little sick by some people's standards, but if you couldn't laugh about your situation and surroundings once in awhile you weren't going to make it.

I remember an incident like yours with the arm. We went down to look at an area that we had called in arty on some NVA. Somebody found a forearm with the hand still on it. They stuck it upright in the mud and put a 101st patch in the palm. Playing a little mind game on Chuck.

Thanks again for a great post, Bro.

[Bill Farnie]

Frisco,
I also hated moving at night. Like you in the boonies, we would move at night to setup an ambush from an NDP.

When we left our NDP to get to the PZ that night we didn’t have to go that far, well under a klick I would say but it seemed like it took forever. The night was one of those moonless kinds that can only happen in the jungle and you couldn’t see anything but blackness. We were really boogying too and I can’t tell you how many times I got whacked by a branch or just outright ran into a tree. Ever walk straight into one of those webs that the humongous tree spiders would spin? God what a creepy feeling that is. I’m surprised no one went missing.

The hairiest part of the whole thing was the combat assault. I have to say that the slick pilots were some of the best I ever flew with. They picked us up using minimum lights and flew into and out of the PZ like it was broad daylight. The scene from the air when we came into sight of Currahee was remarkable. Like I mentioned it was moonless, probably by Chucks design, and the light of the flickering flares made it all seem surreal. We could see the enemy mortars impacting the firebase and red and green tracers from opposite directions and the 105’s firing and I thought to myself, were going down there? Are they crazy? But we made the “customary jump” from the copters with no problems or casualties and they did a good job getting us inside the wire.

The attack on Currahee wasn’t as scary as that CA. I think I may have only fired about two mags during the ground attack. The 105’s pretty much broke up all the attacks. Come to think of it, those 105’s leveled and firing the beehive rounds just above our fighting positions was pretty hairy in itself.

I didn’t like the arm and finger thing, in my mind it was desecrating the body, but I understood …. Know what I mean?

[Frisco-Kid]

Dog Tags On Boots

Many of us would put one of our dog tags on the laces of one of our boots. The reasoning behind this being that if you were dismembered by an RPG, mortar, booby trap, etc., it would increase the chances of most of you being properly identified. Not an unfounded concern. I've gathered up more body parts than I care to think about.

I don't know if this was unique to VN, or a carry-over from WWII or the Korean War. I guess many of our guys in the Gulf War did this, also. I assume it's being done in Iraq now.

How about you Brits? Did you guys do this in the Gulf War, Falklands, or Northern Ireland? I assume you had dog tags. Didn't you? Were there 2 of them?

[Zofo]

We had two tags and they went round the neck. However, as much as my mob said we were "teeth arm" the reality was a lot different so I don't know what our brothers with the big guns or even the little guns did with theirs.

[Bombardier]

Yep, we had dog tags x 2 and round. I wore mine around my neck, dont know of anybody putting them anywhere else. (Y)

[Frisco-Kid]

Diddy Boppin'

The first couple of weeks of FEB67 we're doing a S&D [Search & Destroy] operation in the southern Central Highlands somewhere around Bao Loc. It was pretty rugged country, but we'd been in rougher further north in The Highlands. It was some beautiful country, and my biggest memory of it is it had several beautiful waterfalls in the area.

My other big memory of it was that we made very little contact with Charlie. There were a few around, but not many. We would jump a small group of them once in awhile, but they never really wanted to stand and fight. We would stay in the area for maybe two weeks, and kill maybe 5-6 bad guys.

One afternoon we stop for a break. The platoon leader tells me and two other guys to gather up some canteens and go to a small waterfall about a quarter mile away and fill them. So, with our 16's slung and each carrying 5-6 canteens, we head out. We light-up some smokes and go diddy boppin' down the trail that leads to the waterfall.

It's a pretty comfortable Highlands afternoon, and it's kinda like walking through the woods back in the world. We're in single file and talking in low tones about cars, girls, or whatever 19/20 yr. olds talk about. We're kind of watching the trail, but we have seen virtually no booby traps since we've been in the AO.

About half way there, we come around a bend in the trail and there, about 50' in front of us, are two VC walking towards us! They're carrying a couple canteens apiece and a tin bucket with a lid on it. Like us, their rifles are slung on their shoulders. One has an AK and the other one has an M-1 carbine. They were diddy boppin' along like we were. We all stop and look at each other in amazement for about 5-6 seconds, none of us moving. Suddenly they drop their stuff and jump off the trail to their left. They're running diagonally up a not-too-steep side hill. We drop our stuff, unsling our rifles, and chase them up the hill. One of us goes up the middle, and me and the other guy goes to the left and right flank. The trees are pretty thin on the hillside and we get glimpses of them, but never a clear shot.

When we are about halfway up the hill, they start shooting down at us. The guy that went up the middle takes a round in his boot, and goes ass over tea kettle back down the hill. The other guy and I continue to flank them using the trees for cover, trying to make them keep their heads down with the 16's on rock-and-roll. We are soon within grenade distance, and my buddy tosses one. We rush their position before the dust settles. We kill both of them. They had both been hit with some of the shrapnel, but not fatally. They were in a fighting hole at the top of the hill, evidently trail watchers. It's all over by the time the rest of the platoon shows up.

Coz, the guy shot in the boot, was lucky. The round barely nicked the meaty part of the edge of his foot, but it blew the sole halfway off the boot. He said it felt like his foot had been blown off and he had a slightly sprained ankle.

So, we learned a tough lesson: no matter how quiet and safe it might seem; how little contact you've made with Charlie; how good things seem to be going; you can't just go diddy boppin' down the trail. These two Charlies learned the lesson too late, and ALOT harder than we did.

[Bombardier]

So, we learned a tough lesson: no matter how quiet and safe it might seem; how little contact you've made with Charlie;

A similar scenario in Northern Ireland, months would pass with no contact, troops got complacent and then WHACK ! troops are hit. rbo;

[Frisco-Kid]

I'm manning a 60 machinegun on a gun jeep as part of the security for a convoy of tanker trucks headed from Cam Ranh Bay to Ban Me Thuot in the Central Highlands. We head north to Nha Trang, hang a sharp left, and start up into The Highlands. Just before the trucks have to start one of the steepest climbs, we stop for a break. In every truck, besides the driver, there's an armed rifleman. Part of the security force that I'm a member of. Everybody has a chance to get out and stretch, grab a bite of C's, drink a soda, the drivers can check out their trucks, etc..

By this time there's alot of civilian traffic on the road in both directions. Most of it is motorbike traffic. As they pass the convoy of 30+ tanker trucks, alot of them wave at the GI's. They, in turn, smile, wave, or give wolf whistles to some of the prettier girl going by. Stuff that American soldiers have done in every foreign country they've ever been in.

At one point, a guy on a motorbike stops near the end of the convoy where I am. He's got his girlfriend or wife on the back of the bike. They're both in there late teens or early twenties. About most of our ages. They are both dressed very well, suggesting that they are probably from well-to-do families. Alot of us are wondering why he's not in an ARVN uniform. I used to resent this ALOT when I would see male civilians about my age.

Anyway, this guy strikes up a conversation in broken English with the driver and security guard from the truck in front of me. Some of us keep a wary eye on them, as we usually did when civilians would approach us. After a couple of minutes I see the guy jesture to his bike and then to the tanker trailer, obviously asking for some gas for his bike. The driver shakes his head no, but the guy riding shotgun says something to the driver and they nod their heads yes. But they go to the next truck forward. I climb off the jeep to watch them, curious. As they bring the bike up to the side of the truck where the valves are, I notice that the trailer is stenciled in big letters, "JP4" [jet fuel]. I just shake my head and grin. They fill the guy's bike up and he and his girlfriend takes off, happier than pigs in mud. The GI's stand there cheerfully waving good-bye with sh!t-eating grins on their faces.

[Bombardier]

LMFAO

http://www.militaryimages.net/vbpics/bike.gif

[PoPs]

I noticed some stories being posted and thought I would add my own. I hope no one minds the long post.

In July, 1968 we deployed to Vietnam. We flew from Ft Carson. Colorado and landed in Da Nang, Vietnam. It was night time and we were told that the air base was under a rocket attack. We deplaned off the rear of the aircraft and had to run to a bunkered area. We than boarded a C130 aircraft and flew up to Dong Ha. The next morning we were loaded on Marine trucks and driven to Wunder Beach. Wunder Beach was a port with fine white sand. When we arrived we had no facilities and began to fill sandbags to build bunkers for shelter and protection. The only equipment we had was what we carried with us. We ate c-rations 3 times a day and the only water we had was what we had in our canteens and in a water buffalo borrowed from the Marines. My loader, Don Bentley got severe sun burned on his arms. The burns turned into huge blisters which broke at night while sleeping. The next day he would reburn the same areas. Our medics had some sunburn medicine which came in a can just like shoe polish. It was also hard like polish. I remember trying to apply this to Don’s arm mixed with the fine sand. Don had scars on his upper arms from the sunburns. After about a week our tanks arrived and we began to clean them and get them ready to move from wunder beach. A Co (my Company) was the first unit in the Brigade to move from wunder Beach and begin combat operations west and north of Quang Tri. Being a gunner on the tank I spent almost all my time inside the turret. Only when we stopped was I able to pop my head out to get fresh air. After crossing a small stream we had stopped on the bank and waited for the rest of the company to cross. I popped my head out of the loaders hatch and was looking around. Just as we began to move out I noticed a 155mm Artillery round sticking out of the ground, nose up. This round was clearly planted as a mine. I started to alert my tank commander but didn’t....In Jan, 1969 our unit was moving through this same area. Our como track, a M113 personnel carrier hit a 155mm Artillery mine, killing Bill Wilburn and blowing the legs off of Jerry DuBois. Up until our last reunion (July 2004) I did not know of the circumstances behind Jerry’s injuries.


At that reunion we were sitting around talking about things. It was around 2:00 am and Jerry said he was tired and going to bed. After Jerry left the topic changed to how Jerry lost his legs. The 1SG said where the incident happened and I told him about the 155 round I had seen and that ever since I had seen it, it had been on my mind. The 1SG than told me that the mine that Jerry hit was a 155mm arty round. I cried “1SG please don’t tell me that”. I left the reunion the next morning. I was unable to say goodby or face Jerry. When I got home I broke down. My wife knew something was wrong and I had a very difficult time telling her what had happened. She knew about my reoccurring thoughts/dreams about the mine I had seen. Now I had to tell her that I may be responsible for a name on the Wall. About a month later I emailed Jerry and told him the story and apologized. He responded by saying that we could not be 100% sure that the mine he hit was the same one.
During this time west and north of Quang Tri we found a small bunker complex. Some one said that they thought they say some one in a spider hole that was in front of my tank. We drove over the hole and “neutral steered” over the hole. That night while doing maintenance on the tank I was cleaning mud out of the track when I noticed something stuck between the road wheels. I used my fingers to dislodge it and when it came out it was part of a hand. This image has stayed with me over the years.

In September we were operating north east of Con Thien along the DMZ. My platoon was in the lead when we came upon a small group of NVA soldiers. After dispatching the soldiers my platoon moved onto a small knoll behind where the NVA were. My plt moved up on top on the right side while another plt moved on the left. My tank was the last tank on the right flank. As we pulled onto the knoll we had pulled into the middle of a NVA company hiding in the tall grass. They we so close that we were unable to use our tank weapons as they were running in between the tanks. My TC and loader were popping their heads out side their hatches firing at them with their 45’s. I was turned around in my seat loading magazines and passing them to each of them.